Am I the only one | Imamother

SixOfWands

Mon, Jul 31 2017, 10:03 am

PinkFridge wrote:

I've heard that Kid Rock makes Trump look well, not like a choir boy but not terrible by comparison.
I think that the failure of repeal and replace is going to be a problem. But 2018 elections are over a year away.

The nation's image of Kid Rock is very different from Detroit's.

He personally donates about $1 million a year to charities. One article refers to a $250,000 donation to add an interactive music lab at the Detroit Historical Museum, an undisclosed sum to keep a day each year of Detroit Gold Cup hydroplane races free and a Made in Detroit Endowed Scholarship at Wayne State University. The Kid Rock Foundation "is a 501 (c) 3 non-profit raising funds for and awareness of local and regional charities helping disadvantaged children, victims of war and natural disasters, and those suffering from illness." He sends care packages to the troops. Sets up community kitchens. He's a deputy reserve police officer.

I honestly don't know anything about him politically. But there's a lot more to him than a bad marriage to Pamela Anderson and a bad z3x tape.

PinkFridge

Mon, Jul 31 2017, 10:05 am

SixOfWands wrote:

If Moshiach's not here by then and Michigan elects him, TIA for reassuring me Very Happy

imasoftov

Mon, Jul 31 2017, 10:38 am

SixOfWands wrote:

... marriage to Pamela Anderson and a bad z3x tape.

I suppose those by themselves now qualify him to be president ...

allthingsblue

Mon, Jul 31 2017, 3:01 pm

Well, well. The Scaramucci act in the Trump circus is officially over.

PinkFridge

Mon, Jul 31 2017, 3:14 pm

allthingsblue wrote:

Well, well. The Scaramucci act in the Trump circus is officially over.

How bizarre this all is.
And I just turned on Hannity and he doesn't seem to be talking about it at all.
BTW, anyone know who's supposed to replace this Kelly fellow? (Sorry I don't remember his rank, I'd give him the respect he's earned on that score if I did.)

MagentaYenta

Mon, Jul 31 2017, 3:35 pm

allthingsblue wrote:

Well, well. The Scaramucci act in the Trump circus is officially over.

Seriously

Fox

Mon, Jul 31 2017, 3:36 pm

marina wrote:

Honestly, I'm kind of all done. Fox, you repeatedly claim that Trump opponents are ignorant and opposed him blindly, without even understanding what he actually did. And then you claim that Trump supporters, on the other hand, are thoughtful people who make their decisions based on how well they think the economy is doing. I guess no one is blindly supporting Trump for the wrong reasons.

And you do this over and over again, even though I've called you out on it many times- in politics and in feminism. You take some extremist and try to convince us that he or she represents the whole group.

I've never, as far as I can remember, done that - because it's the low hanging fruit. It's super easy to pretend that everyone in the "other" camp is represented by a moron. Not interested in that level of debate or saying the same stuff over and over.

Listen, I'm perfectly happy to let it go.

Except that I'm not the one bringing it up. The pattern is always the same: someone starts a thread that basically says, "OMG, can you believe how awful Trump is?" or something equivalent on a social issue. A few regulars then make snarky or sarcastic remarks affirming that he's just awful or that they're thankful they don't live around people who don't agree that penguins and owls should be allowed to marry or receive social benefits or whatever.

At that point, I usually let it ride, but then I think, "You know, there are plenty of Imamothers out there who don't agree but are reluctant to join the fray because they don't really want get bashed." I know, because I get PMs saying, "Fox, could you please respond to X!" So I give it a while depending on my schedule, and then I mount my horse (which is tough because I'm a large woman and need a big horse!), grab my lance, and charge in.

I don't recall ever claiming that all voters for any candidate have made their choices for the "right" reasons. How would you even define the "right" reason to vote for a particular candidate? I do recall saying that I could understand why voters would choose Clinton because of Trump's inexperience in government. I have absolutely never called any individual ignorant. Not my style.

As for the specifics of this thread, you skillfully re-directed the conversation. You started by saying, essentially, "What has happened that would make Trump voters happy with their choice?" A legitimate question.

And I answered it: they see things are going well economically; crime is being discussed; and they perceive cultural pushback.

You then turned it slightly, suggesting that Trump voters are "excited" about things that were, in fact, going on during Obama's administration. And then proceeded to prove it with charts and graphs.

Except that no one ever claimed that Trump was responsible for all of these positive developments; in fact, I specifically said he wasn't. Nor did I say that I believe voters believe he has magical powers. Most people who voted for Trump, I believe, did so with some trepidation. Even the most enthusiastic MAGA-hat owner realized that he has no government experience and that business experience doesn't always translate well.

Had Trump been running against Obama, then Obama would likely have won. But he wasn't. He was running against a highly unpopular, extraordinarily flawed candidate. As Chuck Schumer said recently, “When you lose to somebody who has 40 percent popularity, you don’t blame other things — Comey, Russia — you blame yourself.”

So being satisfied that you voted for Trump doesn't mean that you think he's all that and a bag of chips. It means that you're thankful none of the left's doomsday scenarios seem to have materialized; you're glad things seem stable in the country, if not the WH; and your excitement is reserved for cheesecake and chocolate.

As for using extremists as representative of an entire group, there are two problems with this charge. The first is that so-called extremists are, in fact, the loudest, most influential voices among some groups. And you can't simply go around re-defining the group in order to claim that the extremists aren't representative.

The second problem is that you actually have done this repeatedly: you have posted all kinds of photos of neo-Nazis, implying that conservatives condone or tolerate this. You can't argue that The Daily Stormer is the logical result of conservative ideology yet complain when I suggest that Jewish Zionists being kicked out the Dyke March is a logical consequence of progressivism.

Really, I can sum up Trump's victory and his voters' general satisfaction with their choice by referencing Andrew Breitbart's observation that politics is downstream from culture. Trump tapped in on the profound disrespect felt by people at the hands of coastal media, the academic world, and leftists/progressives of all sorts. In other words, bullying people for decades on end hasn't worked well for the left. Given that, I think we got off easy with Trump.

allthingsblue

Mon, Jul 31 2017, 3:37 pm

MagentaYenta wrote:

Seriously

Seriously. (As serious as one can be when discussing this administration, anyway.) seems Kelly wasn't a fan of his.
Unclear whether he resigned or was fired.

MagentaYenta

Mon, Jul 31 2017, 3:40 pm

allthingsblue wrote:

Seriously. (As serious as one can be when discussing this administration, anyway.) seems Kelly wasn't a fan of his.
Unclear whether he resigned or was fired.

The first report I read said he resigned at Kelly's request.

It's kinda hard to control the narrative when everyone that speaks for you either quits or gets fired. Just sayin'.

marina

Mon, Jul 31 2017, 4:18 pm

Quote:

You can't argue that The Daily Stormer is the logical result of conservative ideology yet complain when I suggest that Jewish Zionists being kicked out the Dyke March is a logical consequence of progressivism

I looked for where I said such a ridiculous thing, but couldn't find it. Plse post a link to this thread and plse make sure I actually wrote that.

Fox

Mon, Jul 31 2017, 4:18 pm

Maybe Scaramucci got a job with Debbie Wasserman Schultz. I hear she's in need of a new IT guy.

marina

Mon, Jul 31 2017, 4:37 pm

Reasonable Trump voters who don't regret their vote and think the President is doing a good job cannot - fundamentally - be relying on statistical data showing the same trends as pre-Trump.

That would be like me saying I'm so pleased that I switched to Atkins from weight watchers and am losing 4 lbs a month! Just like before I switched!

It makes no sense and does not present me as reasonable. It makes me look like I'm unaware of the data and what it means.

I can't explain it any other way. You want to say that Trump voters are just relieved that their choice didn't sink the country on day one? Okay. The rest of us are relieved too.

MagentaYenta

Mon, Jul 31 2017, 4:40 pm

Fox wrote:

Maybe Scaramucci got a job with Debbie Wasserman Schultz. I hear she's in need of a new IT guy.

I not surprised that you cannot distinguish between topical current events and last years news.

SixOfWands

Mon, Jul 31 2017, 4:47 pm

Fox wrote:

Maybe Scaramucci got a job with Debbie Wasserman Schultz. I hear she's in need of a new IT guy.

Debbie Wasserman Schultz is no longer DNC chair. Hillary Clinton lost the election. Why are we still reliving that?

Within an 11-day period .... Trump hired a White House communications director who gave what may be the most unhinged interview in the history of politics. Had his Press Secretary quit over the hiring. Fired his Chief of Staff in an apparently bizarre manner. Then fired said communications director.

An administration that has reportedly threatened states whose senators voted against repeal of the ACA. And who has tacitly threatened to withhold federal funds that help people afford health insurance.

For 7 years, we heard about the AH-MAZING health care plan the Republicans would give us, if not for those pesky Democrats. A plan where, according to Trump, no one will lose coverage. There will be insurance for everybody. Healthcare will be a “lot less expensive” for everyone — the government, consumers, providers. "Insurance is, you're 20 years old, you just graduated from college, and you start paying $15 a month for the rest of your life and by the time you're 70, and you really need it, you're still paying the same amount and that's really insurance." We're still waiting.

But, gee, let's rehash the election!

Oh. Because you don't want to talk about Russia. Or the fact that Trump has utterly failed to divest. Or that the White House is in chaos. Or anything else that's actually happening.

But hey, let's also celebrate those pesky rules Trump has rolled back, or tried to roll back. Like allowing coal companies to dump debris in local waterways. Or rejecting a ban on an insecticide that may pose a risk to fetal brain and nervous system development. Delayed a rule aiming to increase safety at facilities that use hazardous chemicals. Rollback of financial regulations enacted after the last crisis. Hey, what could go wrong?

Fox

Mon, Jul 31 2017, 4:51 pm

marina wrote:

I looked for where I said such a ridiculous thing, but couldn't find it. Plse post a link to this thread and plse make sure I actually wrote that.

How about where you compared Breitbart content to depicting Jews as vermin? Would that qualify?

Is Steve Bannon Anti-Semitic?

After all, you were offended by Breitbart content, and depicting Jews as vermin is offensive -- same thing, right?

Or when anti-Semitism on the left was brought up, you had a handy picture of a few dozen neo-Nazis protesting the removal of Confederate statues, apparently demonstrating that the right is far more concerning compared to "a few left-leaning politicians with anti-Israel views":

Safe Haven for Trump Supporters

Now you may offer up a Clintonian argument where you debate the definition of "is" or something equivalent. After all, you didn't actually say that all conservatives are neo-Nazis. You didn't say that Breitbart is the equivalent of Stormfront. Putting up pictures of anti-Semitic cartoons and photos of neo-Nazis and comparing them to conservative ideology isn't the same as calling them identical . . . You were just innocently showing Americans engaging in protest and displaying artwork . . .

Fox

Mon, Jul 31 2017, 5:07 pm

MagentaYenta wrote:

I not surprised that you cannot distinguish between topical current events and last years news.

Huh? Imran Awan was just arrested. Something that happened 2-3 weeks ago is, I believe, still considered "current" unless you're living in dog years.

Nevertheless, by all means keep up the ad hominem attacks!

SixOfWands wrote:

Debbie Wasserman Schultz is no longer DNC chair. Hillary Clinton lost the election. Why are we still reliving that?

Um, because I made a joke about Scaramucci and MagentaYenta seems to think that the statute of limitations for bank fraud and possible destruction of evidence is about six minutes.

allthingsblue

Mon, Jul 31 2017, 5:10 pm

Fox, the mainstream media barely mentioned Awan! Most people never heard of his arrest, so they don't even know what you're talking about...

SixOfWands

Mon, Jul 31 2017, 5:21 pm

allthingsblue wrote:

Fox, the mainstream media barely mentioned Awan! Most people never heard of his arrest, so they don't even know what you're talking about...

Yeah. It was only in those poorly-circulated, right wing publications. Like the NY Times. NY Magazine. USA Today.

Its just that most of us don't buy into conspiracy theories.

Fox

Mon, Jul 31 2017, 5:30 pm

SixOfWands wrote:

For 7 years, we heard about the AH-MAZING health care plan the Republicans would give us, if not for those pesky Democrats. A plan where, according to Trump, no one will lose coverage. There will be insurance for everybody. Healthcare will be a “lot less expensive” for everyone — the government, consumers, providers. "Insurance is, you're 20 years old, you just graduated from college, and you start paying $15 a month for the rest of your life and by the time you're 70, and you really need it, you're still paying the same amount and that's really insurance." We're still waiting.

I don't recall anyone promising anything fabulous, and if they did, I don't recall anyone with even a modicum of economic education believing him/her. They promised to repeal the ACA, which is turning out to be unnecessary as insurers withdraw from the market and those who are left raise rates.

But the reason the election is still being rehashed is because people are still enraged over Trump's being President.

So make it easy on everyone: don't get so worked up over Trump himself, and no one will be forced to say, "Yes, but remember who he was running against?"

Note: that doesn't mean anyone needs to like or agree with Trump. It doesn't mean that you can't critique him harshly. He deserves it. But everyone needs to let go of the craziness.

I was driving yesterday while listening to NPR. A Mexican-American journalist read a personal essay about her daughter. First, she lamented her daughter's pale skin: she used pejorative descriptions of white people and then told about wanting to yell, "She's Mexican" at people who might erroneously believe her to be an ethnic European. Because people do that, you know. They regularly walk around, eyeing children and trying to guess their precise racial and ethnic backgrounds. Then the journalist told about teaching her daughter to make tamales, and how this was "an act of resistence" in the Age of Trump.

I laughed so hard I nearly ran off the road.

Fox

Mon, Jul 31 2017, 5:40 pm

allthingsblue wrote:

Fox, the mainstream media barely mentioned Awan! Most people never heard of his arrest, so they don't even know what you're talking about...

And . . . point to the conservatives!

SixOfWands wrote:

Its just that most of us don't buy into conspiracy theories.

I know. Don't you just hate when Forbes insists on peddling those crazy stories.

Money wired out of the country. $4 million paid since 2010, including a salary of $160K paid to a 22-year-old computer tech. Threats against Capitol Police. Damaged hard drives.

Nope. Nothing to see here. But, Russia!