Should I buy my 10 yr old daughter a Kipling?

amother

Sapphire

Thu, Aug 10 2017, 7:16 am

Fox wrote:

Please don't support the luxury brand knock-off market. This is a prime source of revenue for terrorists, organized crime, and human traffickers.

True, Kipling backpacks aren't in the same category as Hermes, Chanel, and LV when it comes to counterfeiters. The fakes may be passing themselves off as "inspired by Kipling." But even that's kind of sketchy (ahem, Michael Kors quilted bags, ahem).

If you decide a higher-end backpack would be beneficial for your DD, make a project of it. Have her at your elbow when you research the features and quality of various bags. Discuss with her which features are most important to her. Look in the secondary market for possible bargains.

A high-end bag or backpack is an investment that can elevate your whole look, and ten isn't too young to start learning that. But laying out money beyond what you would normally spend means thinking through the purchase carefully.

But I am walking proof of the restorative value of a good bag. Exactly a week ago I had a five-hour surgery under general anesthesia. Fortunately, I had the foresight to order a calfskin Tom Ford crossbody bag (on the secondary market, obviously!).

My DD literally brought it for me to wear home from the hospital, and here I am, back on Imamother and ready to argue with Marina or rant about Regents.

Now you may be saying, "Fox, I am disappointed. Surely you're more spiritual than that!" To which I answer, "Yes, indeed! Tom Ford stuff is viciously overpriced. Spend the same at Chanel and Karl Lagerfeld himself will ring up your purchase while Choupette purrs and sheds on your ankles. Finding the piece I wanted at a decent price was an open miracle! Hashem knew just what would speed my recovery!"

Hmm . . . maybe posting on Imamother and pain meds aren't a great combo. I think I wandered off the point a little.

I'm the OP - I had to google the name brand bag you ordered as I have never heard of it. Wow ...they're like $2000!! I would never know if I would meet you in the street wearing that bag that it could cost so much. If it really looked like a top quality bag maybe I would think you spent $90!! I'm glad the bag makes you feel in better spirits and I hope you feel better soon! (and that the surgery was successful)

How do you know which fake brands are being manufactured by terrorists and criminals?

Amarante

Thu, Aug 10 2017, 10:02 am

Fox wrote:

I saw a review of this product recently, and it came to mind in reading this discussion:
Black Calfskin & Gold-tone Metal Backpack

My first response, of course, was to try to imagine the scenario in which it would be appropriate or stylish to wear, essentially, a Chanel flap bag with backpack straps. I mean, are there women who put on evening clothes, load up their backpacks, put on their sneakers, and then hoof it over to Lincoln Center from the Upper East Side? Do they carry trail mix and water for the perilous journey through Central Park?

But then I looked at the size: it's basically the height and width of a sheet of paper. Remembering the days when I was in the backpack procurement business is a reminder that I was simultaneously in the homework compliance business. Looking back, I would have happily scrounged up the money for $3200 backpacks if it meant that the teachers couldn't assign anything that wouldn't fit in a Chanel backpack. In fact, it could be stated in the school handbook, "If it don't fit in a Chanel, get it done before the bell!"

Seriously, though, ITA with other posters on the Kipling or the au courant equivalent.

Off topic but backpacks as well as fanny packs are experiencing a style resurgence. Chanel makes larger sizes but all of the expensive brands - think Vuitton, Givenchy, Yves Saint Laurent, Gucci, Burberry, Prada etc. make backpacks.

Some are extremely small and others are quite large. None of them have the functionality of a backpack meant for a student to shlep everything. If they are a decent size, they are meant to carry a tablet or iPad as well as other stuff and provide a comfortable way to carry stuff.

And yes, there are woman who might wear them with work clothing in terms of commuting but the vast majority I have seen wear them with leisure stuff. They are great for clothes shopping by the way because it leaves both arms free to look for racks and to shlep other stuff.

Chanel bags are worn with jeans and leggings where I live Very Happy

debsey

Thu, Aug 10 2017, 1:27 pm

amother wrote:

thank you for all the replies!

My dd is not socially awkward but she struggles academically and is self conscious about that. She really works hard during the year.. probably harder than all of my children put together! I don't think that getting her an expensive schoolbag is going to solve her problems but at least it might be something she can be proud of in school. Now I am wondering based on all the replies if a Kipling will even be in style in her school this coming school yr . Maybe she will get a brand new one and then go to school and see that everyone has something else - like the Herschel? It's a good idea to ask her to do something to earn it ... but she is generally a good girl and does what I ask (unlike some siblings who always try to get away with things). I guess, I'll see...

I especially appreciate the responses to the fake kipling that someone posted. Since I really don't know about these things, when I clicked on it I thought that it was a good fake and was thinking that I would show it to my dd to see if she likes it. Now I know that the fake one is not the way to go...

I'd suggest asking around. If the Herschel or Vera Bradley is the "it" bag next year, the Kipling is going to backfire. If you show up with a Kipling and everyone else has a Vera Bradley, you're not going to get that sought-after confidence boost. Horrible to spend all that money and then have it not work. Too painful a life lesson for what sounds like a sweet kid.

Personally, I think the occasional "it" bag or cool accessory can be very helpful for a tween. There's nothing wrong with saying "Honey, you have your heart set on this, you've worked so hard, I'm so proud of you, I love the way you take responsibility for your household chores without making me nag you, that's why I'm buying this for you."

But ask a few mothers, and then buy accordingly. I bought my 9th grader a Herschel bag (on sale, of course) because it was the "it" bag in her school and I felt like she needed that confidence boost on the first day. That bag lasted so well, she brought it with her to Israel for seminary, and it's still in perfect condition after a year as a bag she used on tiyulim. I would have bought it anyway, but it turned out to be a "worth it" investment in terms of quality.

Fox

Thu, Aug 10 2017, 2:12 pm

amother wrote:

The luxury handbag world is a whole subculture unto itself. I was inducted into the world at the age of 20, when I received a Louis Vuitton Speedy 30 as a gift.

When I started working, every professional woman carried a Coach bag and briefcase. This was in the 80s, the era of the "Classic Coach" bags made entirely of leather.

Both of these brands/models are like cockroaches -- they survive anything. Which was fortunate since the next 25 years were spent paying for tuition and, oh yeah, food.

But a year or two ago, I dipped a few toes back into the luxury handbag game.

First of all, I always, always buy used bags. There are a number of reputable resellers out there. I actually like the idea that my handbag had a life before it came to me. Truthfully, I wouldn't be able or willing to afford any of my handbags were it not for the secondary market. The wear-and-tear on most of these bags is minimal, and good resellers are scrupulously honest about any defects and provide authentication and provenance.

Second of all, most handbag people really think a lot about what they're buying and truly curate their collections, be they large or small. Because these bags are a lot of money, people make very calculated decisions.

Finally, these bags have resale value, and some actually appreciate.

All that said, I completely understand your shock at the prices. I'm the same way about shaitels. I've never paid more than $175 for a shaitel, and I honestly see no difference between a high-end Paula Young and a super-duper customized custom made from the hair of Swedish teenagers and blended with alpaca strands for durability. I hear about the prices and upkeep costs of even "inexpensive" shaitels and think, "You could have an Hermes Birkin or at least a Kelly for that!"

As for terrorist ties, Dr. Mom is correct: there is a definite difference between legitimate brands that are simply trying to capitalize on a popular silhouette and an actual fake that is trying to pass itself off as genuine.

I mentioned it only because a number of people started posting Internet sites, and counterfeiters have become savvier -- the sites are well-designed and look legitimate. It's a lot easier to be taken in than people think.

However, I'm not even a fan of the "inspired by" products. A particular brand worked hard to create a product that has become popular, even if for the wrong reasons. Someone invested money and took a risk to create something that would appeal to people. Anyone who has had his/her own work tweaked and re-packaged by a colleague, boss, or coworker knows that frustration. Some of these companies are not huge multi-nationals; they're actually relatively small businesses.

Anyway, if people are interested, I'll do a S/O about the handbag world.

amother

Ruby

Thu, Aug 10 2017, 3:32 pm

Fox wrote:

Hey Fox, can u explain the bolded?

I bought a quilted MK bag bc the fabric and color were so my style. Are these bags knockoffs of a more expensive brand? Or did u mean something else? I don't care either way bc I love my bag, Im just wondering what u meant.

Chayalle

Thu, Aug 10 2017, 3:39 pm

Fox wrote:

True, Kipling backpacks aren't in the same category as Hermes, Chanel, and LV when it comes to counterfeiters. The fakes may be passing themselves off as "inspired by Kipling." But even that's kind of sketchy (ahem, Michael Kors quilted bags, ahem).

Well, neither are MK bags in the same category as Hermes....95K a bag lends a new meaning to the "sticker shock" expression.

If they were, I doubt I'd be on my second MK bag (though to be perfectly honest, I splurged on the first, which I bought on mega sale; the handles frayed within the first year, and MK generously allowed me to choose my second bag, gratis, from their website. That's another perk of buying from a reputable company....)

amother

Sapphire

Thu, Aug 10 2017, 3:41 pm

amother wrote:

Not OP but also never heard of this entire world. I was aware that there are people who will spend $2,000 or $3,000 on a handbag, but I just googled the above and.... shock

https://www.therealreal.com/pr.....50531

$95,000???? Is this real?? Do people really walk around with a bag like that on their shoulder? Is it seen as an investment item? (but then I'm assuming one wouldn't walk around with it?) A hobby? (but again, one wouldn't walk around with it?) Who is the market here?? This is a whole new world for me!

oh my!! You can buy a small house somewhere for that amount!!! $95,000??? For real??

I guess the Kipling school bag for $100 seems like a joke to some people now - lol!

About the shaitels ... I think it's worth paying something for them...it's your appearance!

Fox

Thu, Aug 10 2017, 4:08 pm

amother wrote:

Not OP but also never heard of this entire world. I was aware that there are people who will spend $2,000 or $3,000 on a handbag, but I just googled the above and.... shock

Yup, there are! I don't know any personally, but the market exists. Now, here it gets interesting. The biggest market for these items is in East Asia and the Middle East. Moreover, the hierarchy is a bit different. For example, Louis Vuitton is considered more like Coach would be considered in the U.S. And nobody wants to carry a shlumpy bag under her burka in Kuwait or UAE!

The Birkin is pretty much the pinnacle of the handbag world, though I would never have one even if I could. Every picture you see where someone is carrying one, the straps are hanging open. Why? Because you'd be driven crazy by having to unlock and/or unthread the whole thing every time you wanted into your handbag. Most people get riders on their homeowners' policies before taking Birkins out in public.

amother wrote:

bought a quilted MK bag bc the fabric and color were so my style. Are these bags knockoffs of a more expensive brand? Or did u mean something else? don't care either way bc love my bag, Im just wondering what u meant.

First of all, never, ever let yourself be second-guessed by some handbag aficionada. Keep firmly in mind that this is all coming from a woman who is somewhat peeved that Paula Young shaitels now cost up to $250!

Developing a personal fashion aesthetic should fun, and it should bring together elements of tznius, art, practicality, and fiscal responsibility.

Now, to answer your question. MK has followed the path of many talented designers. He sold the business to a multi-national apparel group and serves as the "honorary creative head." Which means he is honored to take their money, cashes their checks, and is creative in how he spends it.

However, the luxury business is tricky. You want to expand and sell more stuff, obviously. But you have to calibrate your image very, very carefully. Holding companies specializing in luxury goods such as LVMH, the owner of Louis Vuitton, guard their image above all else. That said, Louis Vuitton can afford the occasional misstep: they were founded in the 1800s and invented coated canvas. Same with Hermes. Chanel benefits from the memory of Gabrielle (Coco) Chanel and the quirkiness of Karl Lagerfeld and his beloved cat, Choupette.

Newer designers and brands, however, don't have room for many mistakes. Coach discovered this back in the 90s. They plastered the "C" logo on stuff and introduced less-expensive lines designed for a "younger consumer." Well, guess what? Women who wear statement handbags do not actually want to look like 13-year-old girls. Coach is still trying to climb back up the ladder of prestige despite having an arguably better product.

This is the trap that MK fell into. The handbag world really turned against MK when they introduced the logo charm -- and enormous monogram hanging from the strap or zipper. Yes, LV can get away with their signature monogram, and Chanel can get away with the interlocking Cs. Sorry, sweetie, you're not LV and you ain't no Coco or Karl.

If you don't care about handbags, you will completely ignore all of this and use your MK bag in good health, just the way I get excited when Paula Young offers a sale.

amother

Ruby

Thu, Aug 10 2017, 4:12 pm

Fox wrote:

Nope, I don't care. I love my bag, big logo charm and all! Very interesting, though, and thanks for sharing!

Fox

Thu, Aug 10 2017, 4:23 pm

amother wrote:

The $95K bags are not common. They're usually made from exotic skins. An average Birkin goes for $5K+ on the secondary market. I have no idea what they cost if you buy directly from Hermes. You can't just walk in and buy one; they have to meet you and decide if you're a good representative for their brand.

The kind of people who own Birkins do not buy Kipling backpacks. They are more likely to buy Longchamps backpacks/bags for their kids, which are not necessarily much more than Kipling.

But now we get to the real meat: you see a difference between a $150 shaitel and a $1500 shaitel. I totally get that! I see a difference between a $50 handbag and a $1500 handbag. For me, a high-end handbag gives me more bang for the buck than a similarly expensive shaitel.

I was incredibly influenced by the aesthetic of the late Gianni Versace. Not his designs, mind you. The way he dressed personally. Very simple, basic colors with good, fluid fabrics that showed off really beautiful accessories. Usually very subtle, particularly toward the end of his life.

It's all part of defining your aesthetic and determining how you want to project yourself. The problem is never that someone decides an individual part of her wardrobe warrants spending more. The problem occurs when it becomes a societal thing: when a kallah "needs" a $3K shaitel to feel good about herself and because "that's what kallahs get" or when kids' shoes costing less than $150 are automatically "nerdy."

amother

Sapphire

Thu, Aug 10 2017, 5:58 pm

ok Fox ... this is totally interesting to someone uneducated in fashion!

About the shaitels ...I don't think that the amount spent makes someone feel better about herself. I think the quality and cut/style of the shaitel is what makes the difference. I am wearing a middle of the road shaitel today ... it cost me $850 - possibly sells for more but I got it at a "sale". However, the last time I brought my shaitel to get washed it didn't come out so great so I really don't feel so pretty in it right now... So much for spending close to $1,000!! On the other hand, I bought my handbag in Target for $18 (clearance rack) and I kind of like it ... Fox, if I don't want a designer handbag (cuz I don't want to pay) what do you think looks decent? I kind of feel like you are the right one to ask! Wow .. I'm happy I started this thread..it really took an interesting turn! I hope this is keeping you busy as you are recuperating!