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Trump's remarks
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WhatFor




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Aug 15 2017, 6:18 pm
I literally had to leave work after the president's remarks on Charlottesville today. If you are still defending this man's behavior you should be ashamed of yourself.
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treestump




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Aug 15 2017, 6:24 pm
It is so frightening.

I don't even know what to say.
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tryinghard




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Aug 15 2017, 7:29 pm
What was it that so traumatized you that you needed to leave work?
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mame1




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Aug 15 2017, 8:20 pm
First of all I don't watch the news so I don't know what he said.
Last I heard, he said both sides are to blame. I do think that both sides went there looking for a fight. I don't think you can completely exonerate the counter-protesters and say that they weren't there to escalate things more than the white supremacists already did.

Everything was handled wrong. The cops should have been aware that there was going to be an escalation and they should have been prepared for it instead of flying and crashing their helicopters around into nothing. I don't understand.

Don't you have to have a permit to congregate and have a protest? Maybe that should be a law. Just thinking out loud here. All I know is that my daughter had to have a permit to have a lemonade stand.

Every single time that the Arabs lob rockets into Israel the world condemns Israel by saying "both sides need to settle down/take a time out" and before Israel even has a chance to defend itself or while Israel is defending itself. Why the shocker when Trump says both sides are to blame? Are you equally as triggered when the same rhetoric is used against your brothers and sisters?
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MagentaYenta




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Aug 15 2017, 8:36 pm
mame1 wrote:
First of all I don't watch the news so I don't know what he said.
Last I heard, he said both sides are to blame. I do think that both sides went there looking for a fight. I don't think you can completely exonerate the counter-protesters and say that they weren't there to escalate things more than the white supremacists already did.

Everything was handled wrong. The cops should have been aware that there was going to be an escalation and they should have been prepared for it instead of flying and crashing their helicopters around into nothing. I don't understand.

Don't you have to have a permit to congregate and have a protest? Maybe that should be a law. Just thinking out loud here. All I know is that my daughter had to have a permit to have a lemonade stand.

Every single time that the Arabs lob rockets into Israel the world condemns Israel by saying "both sides need to settle down/take a time out" and before Israel even has a chance to defend itself or while Israel is defending itself. Why the shocker when Trump says both sides are to blame? Are you equally as triggered when the same rhetoric is used against your brothers and sisters?


The permitting process followed the law. The city withdrew the permits before the actually rally got underway. Certainly the police blew it. The streets were people were marching peacefully should have been closed to motor vehicle traffic. They weren't. A nazi killed one woman and wounded over a dozen others. The copter crashed so quickly the police were unable to send a distress call. The cause is still being investigated. (I have a cousin who pilots a copter for a state police, this is sobering to my family. ) Remember, too the tiki torch parade through campus the night before was unpermitted with no other purpose than to intimidate. Read some reports and then make an informed opinion.
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mame1




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Aug 15 2017, 8:41 pm
oops edited because duplicate

Last edited by mame1 on Tue, Aug 15 2017, 8:42 pm; edited 1 time in total
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mame1




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Aug 15 2017, 8:42 pm
MagentaYenta wrote:
The permitting process followed the law. The city withdrew the permits before the actually rally got underway. Certainly the police blew it. The streets were people were marching peacefully should have been closed to motor vehicle traffic. They weren't. A nazi killed one woman and wounded over a dozen others. The copter crashed so quickly the police were unable to send a distress call. The cause is still being investigated. (I have a cousin who pilots a copter for a state police, this is sobering to my family. ) Remember, too the tiki torch parade through campus the night before was unpermitted with no other purpose than to intimidate. Read some reports and then make an informed opinion.


It was wrong that a permit was ever issued in the first place. By pulling the permit right before the rally, it was just trying to save their tucheses. It wasn't about trying to prevent something from happening. It was always going to happen. This way the city could say they weren't responsible, but they were.

Both the city and the cops mishandled the entire situation. They should have known. They allowed it to happen and then on top of that they allowed it to get out of hand. That's my opinion. I would have known that it would escalate like that...I see what happens when two conflicting nationalist groups meet. There's always a problem.

My point about Israel still stands.

Bevakasha with the investigation- I'm sure we're not going to find that the people on the ground protesting had anything to do with a helicopter crash up in the air unless they were shooting rockets up at the helicopters.

I don't know how it became a Trump thing. I blame the Charlottesville city officials and police.That's what would have sent me home sick from work.
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MagentaYenta




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Aug 15 2017, 9:10 pm
mame1 wrote:
It was wrong that a permit was ever issued in the first place. By pulling the permit right before the rally, it was just trying to save their tucheses. It wasn't about trying to prevent something from happening. It was always going to happen. This way the city could say they weren't responsible, but they were.

Both the city and the cops mishandled the entire situation. They should have known. They allowed it to happen and then on top of that they allowed it to get out of hand. That's my opinion. I would have known that it would escalate like that...I see what happens when two conflicting nationalist groups meet. There's always a problem.

My point about Israel still stands.

Bevakasha with the investigation- I'm sure we're not going to find that the people on the ground protesting had anything to do with a helicopter crash up in the air unless they were shooting rockets up at the helicopters.

I don't know how it became a Trump thing. I blame the Charlottesville city officials and police.That's what would have sent me home sick from work.


I'm not arguing your points about Israel.

Fact is it's very American that a permit was issued. Freedom of speech and all that. The city did the right thing when they cancelled. But they did a pizz poor job of deploying their men who had nowhere to turn. They had antifas squeezing them in from one side and nazis on the other. This was a command error that is being investigated.

Remember that helicopter would not have been deployed if it were not for the violent turn the demonstration took.

Again read the news and make an informed opinion. Pick several sources, find some primary ones, listen to the police scanners.


Last edited by MagentaYenta on Tue, Aug 15 2017, 10:06 pm; edited 1 time in total
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WhatFor




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Aug 15 2017, 9:52 pm
tryinghard wrote:
What was it that so traumatized you that you needed to leave work?


Watching the US president say there are fine people on both sides.
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Jeanette




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Aug 15 2017, 10:14 pm
mame1 wrote:


My point about Israel still stands.

Bevakasha with the investigation- I'm sure we're not going to find that the people on the ground protesting had anything to do with a helicopter crash up in the air unless they were shooting rockets up at the helicopters.

I don't know how it became a Trump thing. I blame the Charlottesville city officials and police.That's what would have sent me home sick from work.


What is your point about Israel? In your analogy, who is Israel and who are the Arabs?
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mame1




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Aug 15 2017, 11:09 pm
Jeanette wrote:
What is your point about Israel? In your analogy, who is Israel and who are the Arabs?


OP was upset that Trump said both sides need to calm down. The media is saying that it is a one sided conflict. Yes, only the Nazi rammed a car into a crowd. Trump said that the violence was from both sides and that's what people are taking offense to.

So, Israel gets attacked and defend themselves and the world says "No, it's overkill," when in reality it was terrorism on one side and self-defense on the other.

So clearly, if you want to make it into an analogy, the peaceful and non-violent side would be Israel, and the violent side that rams cars into people would be the Arabs.

The point is that only one side gets attacked, and yet both sides get scolded. The side that was violently attacked should not have been scolded.
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Jeanette




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Aug 15 2017, 11:17 pm
mame1 wrote:
OP was upset that Trump said both sides need to calm down. The media is saying that it is a one sided conflict. Yes, only the Nazi rammed a car into a crowd. Trump said that the violence was from both sides and that's what people are taking offense to.

So, Israel gets attacked and defend themselves and the world says "No, it's overkill," when in reality it was terrorism on one side and self-defense on the other.

So clearly, if you want to make it into an analogy, the peaceful and non-violent side would be Israel, and the violent side that rams cars into people would be the Arabs.

The point is that only one side gets attacked, and yet both sides get scolded. The side that was violently attacked should not have been scolded.


So you are agreeing that Trump should not have both-sided this conflict.

Actually he went a lot further than both-siderism. He openly sided with the Nazis. He also said that the "truly bad people" here are... wait for it... the media, because they criticized him. No moral equivocation there!
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WhatFor




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Aug 15 2017, 11:29 pm
mame1 wrote:
OP was upset that Trump said both sides need to calm down. The media is saying that it is a one sided conflict. Yes, only the Nazi rammed a car into a crowd. Trump said that the violence was from both sides and that's what people are taking offense to.


It's more than that- it's that he said there were fine people on both sides. As Scott Jennings said tonight, there weren't fine people on both sides. Even if you wanted to march to protest the statue being removed, if you show up to a march and the people to the right and left of you are carrying flags with swastikas, you go home. Fine people don't march with Nazis.

The heartening thing about the fallout is that there has generally been a unified response from both sides condemning white supremacists as well as Trump's remarks. It makes me feel more confident that the supremacists will not win.
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moonstone




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Aug 16 2017, 2:07 am
WhatFor wrote:
Watching the US president say there are fine people on both sides.


Seriously, you left work because of that?
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marina




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Aug 16 2017, 2:18 am
once I saw these domestic violence victims stand up to their abuser and protest misogyny.

it was awful. there were bad people on both sides. and very fine people on both sides. Very fine. The victims didn't have a permit. the abusers did, but the victims came without a permit. There are two sides to every story.
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DrMom




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Aug 16 2017, 2:22 am
I think the analogy to Israel/Arabs is grossly inappropriate.

In the Israel-Arab conflict, one side is looking to provoke, and the other just wants to be left alone.

In the Charlottesville situation, one side came with torches and shouting ugly rhetoric, and the other came with clubs and shouting their own ugly rhetoric. Both sides were looking for a fight.

Both White Nationalists and Antifa Fascists are hate groups. The former has a long history of ugly racially-motivated violence, and the newer Antifa movement has had a recent track record of violent riots, physically assaulting those who disagree, torching college campuses, and committing anti-police violence.

And why were the State Police ordered to stand down in the face of violence? Isn't it their job to protect citizens? Why was this tense situation allowed to descend into utter lawless chaos?
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Jeanette




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Aug 16 2017, 7:35 am
DrMom wrote:
I think the analogy to Israel/Arabs is grossly inappropriate.

In the Israel-Arab conflict, one side is looking to provoke, and the other just wants to be left alone.

In the Charlottesville situation, one side came with torches and shouting ugly rhetoric, and the other came with clubs and shouting their own ugly rhetoric. Both sides were looking for a fight.

Both White Nationalists and Antifa Fascists are hate groups. The former has a long history of ugly racially-motivated violence, and the newer Antifa movement has had a recent track record of violent riots, physically assaulting those who disagree, torching college campuses, and committing anti-police violence.

And why were the State Police ordered to stand down in the face of violence? Isn't it their job to protect citizens? Why was this tense situation allowed to descend into utter lawless chaos?


Did you see those Israeli soldiers? They have guns. And they're up against little kids with rocks. There's hate on both sides.

Seriously, DrMom. You don't have to keep defending the president. You don't have to join forces with neo-nazis and the KKK. He's scum. And don't expect any help from him in israel. His word carries zero weight. And his base doesn't exactly adore Israel either.
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DrMom




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Aug 16 2017, 7:45 am
Jeanette wrote:
Did you see those Israeli soldiers? They have guns. And they're up against little kids with rocks. There's hate on both sides.

Seriously, DrMom. You don't have to keep defending the president. You don't have to join forces with neo-nazis and the KKK. He's scum. And don't expect any help from him in israel. His word carries zero weight. And his base doesn't exactly adore Israel either.

I am serious, and I'm not defending anyone. I think the analogy being used here is very weak.

I think Antifa is as much of a hate group as White Nationalists are, and they have committed many acts of violence in the name of their cause.

Do you disagree?
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Jeanette




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Aug 16 2017, 7:56 am
DrMom wrote:
I am serious, and I'm not defending anyone. I think the analogy being used here is very weak.

I think Antifa is as much of a hate group as White Nationalists are, and they have committed many acts of violence in the name of their cause.

Do you disagree?


To quote the great David Duke, "Thank you President Trump for your honesty & courage to tell the truth about #Charlottesville & condemn the leftist terrorists in BLM/Antifa."
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Jeanette




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Aug 16 2017, 8:00 am
Duplicate post
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