Antisemitism in Neutral Switzerland - Whoda Thunk It?

amother

Tangerine

Fri, Aug 18 2017, 10:08 am

amother wrote:

I live in Switzerland and was vacationing close to where this "pool story happened." What I heard was that some Jewish men were using the communal pool in their apartment building as a mikva and were not showering beforehand. Do you blame the owner for getting annoyed? Especially as Switzerland is such a clean country.

It's totally naive to believe that just because a country is neutral, so are all the people living in it. Of course there are plenty of anti semtic Swiss people. What do you think the media is feeding them? BUT, and this is a big but, a great deal of this antisemitism could be avoided if Jews would behave themselves. I have vacationed in areas known for their Jewish presence in the summer and have been very disturbed by the amount of "kosher" garbage lying around, people blatantly ignoring signs (in 4 languages!!) asking visitors not to feed the animals and people putting out regular garbage bags instead of the taxed ones that one is required to use. My husband and I always try to go the extra mile in making a kiddush Hashem, even if it costs us a bit more money or time. We buy chocolates for the apartment owners on our departure and clean up even though we pay a hefty bill for end cleaning. In this way we hope to repair some of the damage others have caused.

Be careful, on this website if you suggest that Jews did anything to make non Jews upset with them or cause antisemitism you could get called a nazi. Rolling Eyes

imasoftov

Fri, Aug 18 2017, 10:50 am

amother wrote:

I'm curious how one turns a swimming pool into a kosher mikva.

debsey

Fri, Aug 18 2017, 1:46 pm

amother wrote:

Be careful, on this website if you suggest that Jews did anything to make non Jews upset with them or cause antisemitism you could get called a nazi. Rolling Eyes

no, if you QUOTE Nazis as proof that the Charedim (or anyone else to the "right" of you) is the cause of Jew-hatred, you will be called out on it. If you post the vilest of propaganda from The Daily Stormer on this site, you will be called out on it.
If you make a common-sense recommendation that people be polite, that's entirely different.

amother

Tangerine

Fri, Aug 18 2017, 2:04 pm

debsey wrote:

Or even if a poster confuses you with another amother who posted something by nazis, even when corrected she will still continue to call all of your opinions that of a nazi when you point out some bein adam lachaveiro issues Jews have had such as seen above in this thread.

Chayalle

Fri, Aug 18 2017, 3:16 pm

SuperWify wrote:

I usually agree with you, chayelle, but here I agree with the poor man in the story.
I'm sure your parents had a good reason to live there though.
Wow this comes to show how there is literally no place in the world without Jewish blood spilled on their hands.

And for those naysayers we still don't walk under the arch of Titus HaRasha even until today .

Oh my father felt terrible for the poor man. We all just stood there not knowing what to do or say. There really was nothing we could say.

It was my grandparents who still lived there, and they had been thru the same hell as this man - or at least, variations of the same. But yes, they had their reasons to live there, and their choices they made. Neither my father nor any of his siblings chose to make their homes there.

If you think the Swiss love Jews more than the Austrians though....

debsey

Fri, Aug 18 2017, 4:00 pm

amother wrote:

I have a solution. Post under your screen name and put your money where your mouth is when criticizing other Jews.

amother

Tangerine

Fri, Aug 18 2017, 4:53 pm

Chayalle wrote:

Don't go to Austria either, they invited the Germans in.

I'll never forget the time our family was on vacation, I was maybe 10 years old or so....a man recognized my father's Austrian accent, y'know, landsleit....was shmoozing with my father, and my father mentioned that his parents live there...and the man got hysterical and started shouting, he told my father to tell his parents to leave Austria at once, as the ground is saturated with Jewish blood...and how as a young man, they forced him to sweep the streets of Vienna with a toothbrush.

Maybe visit Denmark or Sweden.

Scandinavia is antisemetic these days too. Honestly, Europe is scary these days.

SixOfWands

Fri, Aug 18 2017, 5:36 pm

amother wrote:

There are those who hold that if no better mikva is available, a pool is OK for men. The halachos for a men's mikva are totally different to women's.

.... and they wouldn't say anything about using it as a mikvah?

Not buying this one.

The sign should have said that everyone should shower before using the pool. That's pretty standard.

Telling Jews to go to the showers? Not in good taste.

SuperWify

Sat, Aug 19 2017, 5:36 pm

Chayalle wrote:

Ok good! Because it wasn't so clear you felt bad for the man in your op.

amother

Mint

Sat, Aug 19 2017, 6:02 pm

This whole brouhaha was an overreaction, imo.

We are Swiss and have spent many summers in Arosa. I know the Paradies apartment building and the owner is not anti-Semitic or else she wouldn't be renting to Jews.

The owner made at least two concessions to her Jewish guests: she allowed them to go swimming in t-shirts and to use the staff refrigerator to store their food. You must realize that to the average Swiss man on the street, swimming in t-shirts is like swimming in street clothes. It doesn't seem very clean. Also, showering before swimming is an absolute must in Switzerland. So if the owner and other guests see people in street clothes jumping into the pool without showering, it disgusts them. The owner probably got complaints from other guests. Hence the sign. Of course, it was a mistake to address it only to Jewish guests, but honestly, they were the ones causing the problem.

As far as the fridge: if you were on the staff of the hotel, how would you like it if people came at all hours to put in and remove food from the refrigerator? The only ones permitted to use the fridge were the Jewish guests. The sign was addressed to Jewish guests because the owner didn't want the other guests to think they could use the fridge as well.

I know that I'm going to be jumped on by a bunch of posters for defending anti-Semitic Switzerland or for my willfull blindness or hiding my head in the sand, blah, blah, blah.

But as another poster said upthread, a lot of visitors think they're still in Geulah or Boro Park and behave obnoxiously, and then they're surprised when the locals don't love them.

amother

Tan

Sun, Aug 20 2017, 1:09 am

We were in a Davos, Switzerland Sheraton Hotel about 8 years ago. We went swimming with T-shirt over our bathing suits. We were the only ones in the pool. There was no Lifeguards or hotel staff around. All of a sudden, (perhaps they saw us on camera) staff came to tell us that we cannot swim with T-shirts==Bathing suits only. This was very puzzling to us. We were surprised, but listened to rules and left.

I hear what you are saying, that this is street clothes to them...what did it bother them, if nobody else was in pool?

amother

Coral

Sun, Aug 20 2017, 1:28 am

amother wrote:

It's a massive safety concern and a rule at most pools for that reason.