It seems more and more are going OTD

amother

White

Wed, Sep 06 2017, 5:52 am

LovesHashem wrote:

I truly beleive many kids are going OTD for two reasons:

1) Emotional issues, trauma, things from school, home etc. They aren't given therapy, there is no money for therapy, etc. Many parents nowadays beleive schools are about chinuch. Sorry, they aren't. Schools need to teach your kids math, and need to keep up with the par of everyone with their tanach, gemara etc. There's no class on ahavas hashem, talking about how we know hashem is involved with your life, practical kesher with hashem, dealing with life, trauma, mental illness, marriage, dealing with emotions, hormones. THAT'S YOUR JOB AS A PARENT. NOT THE SCHOOL. If you think something is important for your kids to know- makes sure they are taught it BY YOU. I see it way to much where parents just assume the school is teaching that. Since when did a school become a substitue for a loving, healthy, happy, home? Also Sara Schneir (I have no idea how to spell her name- don't kill me for it) was smart, and it was a great idea, it was never a substitute for parents and a home. It was an ADDITION.

2) Taivos. Need I say much more? What can I say, tavios are stronger than ever when you can get anything you want in a second and no one will ever know.

This is kind of insulting. I don't call myself "OTD", but I don't really think "religious" fits me as a label anymore. As I grew into my adult years and matured, I realized that the vast majority of what I was doing was being done only because it's how I was brought up. A defining moment came when I went overseas to a place where no one I knew would know who I am, and I felt absolutely no obligation to keep a lot of what I was taught.

As I examined my own outlook, I came to believe more and more that religion is a choice that works for some people, and not for others. I don't believe "G-d" needs people to be religious, I believe that (some) PEOPLE need to be religious for themselves and for a sense of community. Some people want to be told what to do, and religion accomplishes that. I'm a little resentful that I was basically forced to be religious and that it took me 10 years as an adult to realize it doesn't do anything for me, and I'm much happier and more fulfilled without it. My kids are in community religious schools, but they're well aware that we're happy for them to make their own decisions.

It's insulting to say that I, and many others I've met who have gone or are going thru the same process, have made these decisions out of trauma or inability to control our desires.

amother

Emerald

Wed, Sep 06 2017, 6:01 am

amother wrote:

This is very interesting, so I'm not clear. What do I consider yourself? Jewish just not religious?

(I'm not American so I really don't know all their terms) but on a basic level.. If u believe there is a gd and he gave us the torah so u need to follow what is written in there.
What else is there to it?

amother

White

Wed, Sep 06 2017, 11:12 pm

amother wrote:

The fact that I'm Jewish is incredibly powerful for me. I don't connect practicing religion to the thousands of years of proven history of our tribe. Throughout the ages, there have always been Jews who were religious and Jews who weren't. I truly think that religion is for the person practicing it, and some people love it and some people feel suffocated by it.

I'm not ready to go into my personal beliefs regarding G-d- the Torah- the obligation to follow it, especially as distorted as it's become today.

LovesHashem

Thu, Sep 07 2017, 3:41 am

amother wrote:

Then you should be insulted by the entire thread, not just my conclusions. I never said just "Trauma" specifically. I also mentioned any emotional issues. Please find me a human being alive in 2017 that has zero emotional issues. (Issues meaning struggles) Everyone struggles with something nowadays that is at the least lightly connected to their emotions. Emotions are stronger than logic, I even recently saw somewhere that in a relashionship the past 15 days are more important than the last 15 years. Why? That's what you remember the most, and feel the most. I'm not saying you are messed up, or have issues- I'm just saying you have struggled, like everyone else. And it's not bidavka cuz you "didn't get help" that you are the way you are today.

In fact I just heard at a shuir by Rav Gavriel Freidman where he explained "Biderech sheadam rotzeh, neilech" means in the path you wish to go, you will go. So if you want to beleive the Torah is false, true, you will no matter what. If you want to find the truth, you will find it. If you really don't want a life with a lot of regulations or rules and that want is more powerful than finding the truth, you will live that life. That's why 2 people will attend the same shuir and one will push him downwards, and another will grow. Truly, you can grow from any expirience, if you are pushed down by something while most people are growing from it- you need to ask yourself why that is.

Hashem should give us the strength to follow after the right, truthful path, and want it enough so that it overcomes everything else. If you really want to find truth, you will find it. You sound like someone who wants truth, I hope you have found it.

amother

Scarlet

Thu, Sep 07 2017, 4:04 am

As society gets less and less religious in general, religion isn't as important overall.

People also see their cousins/older siblings/kids from the neighborhood who went OTD and have nice, fully functional secular lives. They see that you can make it outside of frum society. It's not the crazy drugs/s-x/rockandroll that's portrayed, nor will you be the next Baruch Spinoza.

There are also a lot of people who have researched and no longer believe. There are more resources out there to analyze the Torah from an outside perspective. You don't have to sneak to a library to pick up "Who Wrote the Bible?" The information is available everywhere and if you are searching, the Jewish answers aren't particularly good. I know a ton of people who fall into this category. Some are orthoprax (me included), many went OTD.

I definitely agree with Marina too.

There is rarely one reason why people go OTD. There are many different reasons and each person is an individual. Adjusting to the fact that your child may choose a different life path than you doesn't mean that you failed as a parent. It might mean that you raised your child to handle the tough situations and persevere for their own rights, rather than your desires.

amother

Wine

Thu, Sep 07 2017, 7:59 am

Sorry, I did not read any of t his thread, just the title and wanted to quickly comment on this topic.

I believe that when there is fake yiddishkeit and being frum is a lifestyle and kids leave that, then it is not fair to say that they "went off the derech". That derech is not worth staying on... If it is automatic pilot yiddishkeit around them, kids who go off the derech wonder why they have to suffer ... for what?

If you love Hashem and you are close to Him and your children see you loving the fact that you are a Jew, then there is NO way your children will want to leave! They are not stupid.

When your children are little, I recommend playing a game with them where each one goes around and thinks of something they are very grateful for and why? The other day, my friend did that and she said that her son said that he was so happy to be a jew.. and they ended up talking about why it was so special and chas v'shalom if they were not jewish what would be. Not bashing g-im but talking about how wonderful it is to be a yid (.... and dancing around the living room about it.) No matter what storms this kid will have in life, that happiness around yiddishkeit will sustain him and if chas v'shalom he strays.. will bring him back.. just my opinion. it is about prevention.. but of course it is never too late... Each child's road is different and it is not over until 120.

amother

Jetblack

Thu, Sep 07 2017, 2:05 pm

amother wrote:

I guess I'll bite,, I know I'll probably appear stupid..
I honestly don't know what it means.
To me it means bc I was Born Jewish, I believe there is Hashem, and he gave us the torah So I need to Keep it.
Yes I am a by girl and I know It's sad But That is my whole Interpretation.

Am I happy about it? I guess it's OK.. Sometimes I feel very resentful when I can't afford things and I'm like well I need to do this I'm Jewish... I guess I'm happy I'm Jewish it feels higher class to me.

I thought you were joking till now.
I'm so sorry. But I think you are an adult now and should find out more!

LovesHashem

Thu, Sep 07 2017, 2:10 pm

amother wrote:

I'm sorry. I'll be frank and honest. I cannot understand how this happens...I really can't. As someone who has a personality that is so brutal honest with myself, I would of commited suicide long ago if I had not found lectures, and read books, and deeply learned about the topic. I don't do things stam.

Anyway, yeah I'm sorry. I mentioned this before but there's a group of young women in Israel trying to change that. They are organizing shuirim specifically targeting young women and girls like you who went through the BY system and don't know basics of emunah, and how we know Hashem loves us, and he's involved, and the torah is true, and the oral torah is true, etc. Getting big speakers from aish.

Anyway, my friend helps run it and she said hopefully they will be starting to upload their shuirim on TorahAnytime, and also run a fundraiser to get money to support the project so girls don't have to pay a lot to get high quality lectures.

If you want more info, or want to know my story feel free to PM me. For real, I'd love to talk about it....

LovesHashem

Thu, Sep 07 2017, 3:20 pm

amother wrote:

I can't believe you thought I was joking. I am a hundred percent serious.
I stayed Jewish, frum bc otherwise Hashem will punish so badly, and my parents will kill me.so I guess I want to keep the peace and my family, and won't be worth it anyway at this point, what would I gain? And I'm also not the rebellious type
And I can think of many friends who have same thoughts as I do

Wow, I'm so sorry! Well then you must at least really beleive in Hashem to think he will punish you. But Hashem LOVES YOU! He wants the best for you!! That's why he created you! To give you a good life!!!

I know SO many people who had similar thoughts but again, most of them went out and found out about things. I really think you should do. I never really beleived in a God when I was a kid. I was abused emotionally and Judiasm wasn't something positive nor particularly negetive. It was a part of my life, but it was a part of my identity I was born.

And after dealing with so much abuse, I questioned everything. Who said Christians weren't right? I wondered when I was 9. I didn't dare ask since I thought it was chutzpah. I had an "older" sister at the time and asked her. I don't remember what she told me...I think she validated my concerns and told me it's okay to have such thoughts, and we just have to have emunah. I wasn't tramautized since although she didn't give me an answer, she normalized my thoughts and told me it's okay and I don't need to ignore it or push it away, it's a very natural question and when I'm older perhaps I'll get a better answer from someone older than she was (she was 15...)

Anyway, as a teen I started reading about G-d's existence. After that I fully beleived G-d existed but I wasn't sure what type of Judiasm he wanted from me was...

When I was in 10th grade, a met some really good friends who were so curious they were so knowledgable about EVERYTHING! I remember asking one how free will worked in 10th grade, mind you we were both 16 and she was like "Well, according to the Zohar its ________ and according thie R' Dessler its _________ " and sat explaining for over 5 hours.

So yeah, Hashem helped me and guided me, but I went through a really really hard time. And without knowing this stuff I would not of survived.

I really hope you get answers. There are answers.

amother

Emerald

Thu, Sep 07 2017, 3:32 pm

LovesHashem wrote:

[b]

Where are answers? I don't know where to look

Btw
I was also abused very badly when I was young,

And just to clarify, I do believe there is Hashem, like how did the world come to be?
So I believe in Hashem and he gave us 613 commandments and I need to keep them. That is what my life is about I know it's the right thing to do and I need to do it bc I am living for a purpose. I have a tafkid, like who am I kidding to dress and act the way I want then suffer consequences in the next (real) world?
I have a strong inner feeling to do and act the correct way.

I don't feel like it's a privilege or something so special.. So I was born into this and I dont have a choice.
So sometimes I secretly wish I wasn't born into this so much obligations.

LovesHashem

Thu, Sep 07 2017, 3:38 pm

amother wrote:

Again. I'm really sorry. You should know there is SO MUCH MORE TO IT!

A good place to start would be TorahAnytime, look up shuirs about basics. You haven't given me any direct questions, and I don't know if I am well versed enough to give you an answer, but at the least I can try to send you some shuirs, books, and rabanim on the topic. BTW if you PM me, I can get in you in touch with some really big rabanim I know at aish, and other places who deal with these questions all the time. I know someone personally who I think would answer you.

If you want to email me from an anonymous email, you can email imafightingjew@gmail.com. Will do my best to connect you to the right people.

amother

Emerald

Thu, Sep 07 2017, 3:42 pm

LovesHashem wrote:

Thank you, you are so nice..! I will try emailing you later,

But let me ask you one question.
What is so good about being a jew?
Again I am born into it so no choice...