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Forum -> Chinuch, Education & Schooling
It seems more and more are going OTD
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amother
Emerald


 

Post Thu, Sep 07 2017, 6:44 pm
I always think if I would not be born Jewish I can live where ever I want...and a cheap place! And send kids to public school.. No tuition! And then actually enjoy a few more things in life with the extra money
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LovesHashem




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Sep 07 2017, 7:12 pm
amother wrote:
Thank you, you are so nice..! I will try emailing you later,

But let me ask you one question.
What is so good about being a jew?
Again I am born into it so no choice...


What is so good about being a JEW?!? Well, the way I see this all is that the Torah is a guidebook showing us how to live, and by following it we get olam haba, and we have to force ourselves to change, work on our middos, become better people. Acomplishing is what I think is true happeiness in this world. So if I am correct....then the Torah is the key to happiness in this world. (That's how I learned it- I even have SOURCES for this one) .

The non jews don't have this oppurtunity to push themselves like we do. We also are Hashem's children, and we get the privledge of being there to serve him which brings us true joy. I may get killed over here for saying this, but they say when moshiach comes the non jews will all serve us.

Before tomatoes fly- what does this mean? As of my understanding it's like they will be workers in a factory- they will WANT to do the things like building buildings, and being chefs, so we can focus our energy on doing things they can't.

According to the Kuzari there are 5 levels of creation.
1) Inanimate objects
2) Plants
3) Animals
4) Humans
5) Jews

Do you see the huge gaps between plants and animals? or animals and humans? The same gap exists between us and non jews.

I'm sorry if this is a mumble jumble, it's 2 AM over here.
Looking forward to your e-mail!
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amother
Tan


 

Post Fri, Sep 08 2017, 10:19 am
OP here.
LovesHashem, I appreciate your positivity. I'm not so sure about the view that non-Jews are ultimately a lesser class than Jews, serving us in the end...just doesn't feel right. All are G-ds children. I just can't rectify the "we're better than them" attitude.

More along the lines of the original topic, I think people are searching for a better way and are lead OTD because it's just easier. A life full of obligation and monetary stress because everything is so much more expensive in the frum world leads to burn out and stress. Children aren't connecting Torah learning with love of Hashem. It's two seperate things. The learning is empty. It shouldn't be that way. A Torah life should be fulfilling. I think the whole focus today is all wrong. Look at the shidduch process. Got be from the right school and right family. Hide the family skeletons in the closet. Look at the level of gashmias. Look how quick we are to judge less frum.
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LovesHashem




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Sep 08 2017, 10:37 am
amother wrote:
OP here.
LovesHashem, I appreciate your positivity. I'm not so sure about the view that non-Jews are ultimately a lesser class than Jews, serving us in the end...just doesn't feel right. All are G-ds children. I just can't rectify the "we're better than them" attitude.

More along the lines of the original topic, I think people are searching for a better way and are lead OTD because it's just easier. A life full of obligation and monetary stress because everything is so much more expensive in the frum world leads to burn out and stress. Children aren't connecting Torah learning with love of Hashem. It's two seperate things. The learning is empty. It shouldn't be that way. A Torah life should be fulfilling. I think the whole focus today is all wrong. Look at the shidduch process. Got be from the right school and right family. Hide the family skeletons in the closet. Look at the level of gashmias. Look how quick we are to judge less frum.


We aren't per say BETTER than them, we have a capacity to reach a higher place spiritually. That's the reality. I also took issue, but I heard a few lectures that really explained that they aren't per say serving us, but they will be serving Hashem and want to do so, and because we have a greater capacity to serve him spiritually, their job will be doing other things (combined with spirutal things of course). In a factory there are all types of workers, but all are needed for it to function. They all get paid, and all want to be there....that's the type of place the world will be. No one is being FORCED, or a slave. It's in the gemarah, people who mock Jews often take out specific quotes and twist them around to sound very bad, and once you;'ve heard the twisted quotes, it's hard to see it in a different light. I suggest you learn more about it.

Yes I agree with you. When I said taivos, I meant that- it's easier to live life with no obligations. If you have a personality that allows you to live and enjoy life and can push away questions for pleasure in the now, than yes. I can't do that. If I'm not doing something for a purpose I'd rather be dead. If you are frum, than I strongly think you need to take the obligation upon yourself to stop the cycle in YOUR family, and teach, and educate your children about REAL JUDIASM and how beautiful it is, and how beautiful it is to be frum. I'm fufilled and so are a lot of other people...just like many people here are trying to break cycles of phsycial and emotional abuse, you need to break the cycle of spiritual abuse too.

I don't know, I came into shidduchim not attemtping to hide that I've been through some tough stuff, cuz I needed to marry someone who dealt with stuff too. Remember Hashem runs shidduchim- NOT US.

Good Shabbos!
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PinkFridge




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Sep 08 2017, 10:49 am
LovesHashem wrote:
\According to the Kuzari there are 5 levels of creation.
1) Inanimate objects
2) Plants
3) Animals
4) Humans
5) Jews

Do you see the huge gaps between plants and animals? or animals and humans? The same gap exists between us and non jews.


I'm sorry if this is a mumble jumble, it's 2 AM over here.
Looking forward to your e-mail!


There's so much about your post that I like.
But re the snipped: There is a qualitative difference between 4 and 5. We are called Hashem's bechor. And Banim. See Pirkei Avos 3:18 (IIRC about the 18). But there is a unique difference. 1-3 cannot change their status. It is possible to change one's status from 4.
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LovesHashem




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Sep 08 2017, 10:53 am
PinkFridge wrote:
There's so much about your post that I like.
But re the snipped: There is a qualitative difference between 4 and 5. We are called Hashem's bechor. And Banim. See Pirkei Avos 3:18 (IIRC about the 18). But there is a unique difference. 1-3 cannot change their status. It is possible to change one's status from 4.


Thanks PinkFridge, can't tell if you are sarcastic or not. You are correct, I did learn this a while ago and wrote it a 2am...

Anyway shabbos starts real soon in Israel!!!!!!!!!! So bye!
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PinkFridge




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Sep 08 2017, 11:00 am
LovesHashem wrote:
Thanks PinkFridge, can't tell if you are sarcastic or not. You are correct, I did learn this a while ago and wrote it a 2am...

Anyway shabbos starts real soon in Israel!!!!!!!!!! So bye!


Not an ounce of sarcasm.
Have a wonderful Shabbos!
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