DH and I in chinuch - late pay checks are ruining us Vent

amother

Blue

Mon, Sep 04 2017, 8:50 am

amother wrote:

If she wants this for herself, so be it! Of course the 2 are comparable. You don't want to see it, so don't.
BTW, being so determined in one's ideas causes lots of emotional pain. in the end the only option is medication to be able to handle the stress. For their own wellbeing, it's important to let go, and acquire a more easy going state of mind. I understand her because I had my own false areas of determination. It's part of life. We cannot make the world go according to our own belief system, we MUST be submissive in some areas, so we can be strong where it's necessary to be strong. We cannot pull the rope from both ends.

It's not her belief system regarding getting paid - it's Halacha / the law in NY.

Regarding the belief that she's entitled to work in Brooklyn in chinuch in a RW school you're right, she's not.

Her pain isn't emotional - its financial.

amother

Brunette

Mon, Sep 04 2017, 8:54 am

saw50st8 wrote:

OP, you can bring them to Bais Din.

This is really a HUGE halachic issue. They can measure all the skirts they want, but until they pay the staff on time, they are not practicing halachic Judaism. They should pay the staff FIRST and then figure out how to pay their other bills. They should not be financing their bills on the backs of their staff.

If you want to be less confrontational directly, write a letter and name the school and send it to one of the Jewish publications. Or make a blog post. It will give the school enough bad publicity that they should at least respond. If you have enough friends with kids in the school, try to have a campaign to have parents call and question why the staff isn't being paid.

I think I disagree with everything you said.

1. I don't think it would be good for her career in chinuch if it is known op took her school to a din torah.
2. It's easy to say "teachers should be paid first". The reality is that if you don't pay the utilities or the water bill, then those will be turned off and the school can't function without heat, air conditioning, lights, or water. The truth is that everybody needs to be paid. Prioritizing this one over that one won't work.
3. No frum publication is going to publicly call out a yeshiva in a million years. The yated is not going to have one page with the list of names of the men who refuse to give their wives a get, and the next page a list of yeshivos that are behind in paying their teachers.
4. I agree with what many have said earlier. At some point an individual needs to take responsibility. Op is very aware of the financial situation and is choosing to go back this school year. As the saying goes, fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.
5. A school that regularly can't meet their bills is simply not viable. If this is an ongoing problem, the school should close.

amother

Navy

Mon, Sep 04 2017, 8:55 am

Squishy wrote:

It was ONE particular school that had that high percentage of girls going to FLORIDA a DIFFERENT year than this one. Did you even read what I wrote?

I understand why you are amother.

This year the girls went to California - not necessarily LA. LA has 18 million people, your premise that if you didn't see them, it didn't happen is an irritating logical fallacy.

There was another one on this thread, Navy, that said that if she didn't know about it, it didn't happen, so you have company.

Even though I'm amother, I will not let you twist my words. This is what I said.

Quote:

I live in monsey and have taught in four local mainstream schools. I dont know what your talking about. I was always paid at the end of a month for the previous month, so yeah its late but its predictable and I was never owed more than 2 months max in my 14 years of teaching.

and I dont know of a single school that allows girls to go to florida at all, so idk where you're getting 93% from.

I said I don't know what you're talking about. SO you can clarify which school or you can have people like me and amother Floralwhite, (who are involved in schools here!) who doubt you. DId anyone say it didn't happen? I have a right to ask for clarification/explanation of a very negative impression you gave of a school.

amother

Bronze

Mon, Sep 04 2017, 8:58 am

amother wrote:

With belief system I meant that she believes she has to stay in this school, not that she has to get paid. Of course she has to get paid. But she's not.
There's more than one RW school in Brooklyn. There are many many. She doesn't have to go to MO schools.
And the financial pain eventually turns into emotional and then physical pain. Also, being overburdened with financial pain has a different set of symptoms, which there's a medication for that too. If that's what she wants, by all means, go ahead.

amother

Blue

Mon, Sep 04 2017, 9:17 am

amother wrote:

She has switched schools. I'm not quite sure why you're suggesting she needs medication.

I'm sad too that a couple in chinuch can't make it in Brooklyn - and not because of the high cost of living.

33055

Mon, Sep 04 2017, 9:21 am

amother wrote:

Uhm, exactly what school did I give a negative impression of?

You don't get it. It is scary that you can't understand what is wrong with your logic. And you teach our children. Floral White doesn't have the same issue as you. She realizes something might exist that she doesn't know about.

I will not name the schools for obvious reasons. Or reasons which should be obvious.

amother

Navy

Mon, Sep 04 2017, 9:27 am

Squishy wrote:

Um, really? You don't think that this is a negative impression of a school?

Squishy wrote:

I wrote about one school I know where the teachers didn't get paid for a year, but 93%of the girls went to Florida. This year, the trips are to California while the teachers are not paid.

I did not present any logic only the facts that I know, so I don't know what's scary. And yes , I teach or have taught your children but for all you know I teach them fruit decorating lol, so again I don't know whats scary.

petiteruchy

Mon, Sep 04 2017, 10:12 am

I really don't understand what there is to say.

It's not my reality at all to work someplace that doesn't pay. I don't understand how people can do it. I don't understand why whether the girls go on vacations or not has anything at all to do with the topic. I'm not willing to work for free if I've been contracted to do so with pay. It doesn't matter who the students are, poor or rich. If the school doesn't have money to operate, they can't operate. Our debates about whether to pay electricity or staff are insane, to put it lightly.

You have choices here, but they are finite, OP, so just pick one.

1. Keep the status quo and just continue to come here to complain every so often. This is a terrible choice because not only is it very annoying for the rest of us, eventually your children will be starving and homeless.

2. Leave and find another school. People have many opinions about which kinds of schools do this or don't do this and what schools will think of a teacher who leaves half way. I have no opinion, although I can't believe you'd even come back to a school who made no effort to settle your back pay over the summer. I'm trying to imagine the look on my face when my principal asks me to come in for a staff meeting or gives me my schedule, but doesn't have an answer about my pay check.

3. Leave and find another profession. I don't know what your qualifications are. The same people who think it's within the realm of normal to not pay teachers probably also don't balk at not paying their secretaries or book-keepers or cashiers, so preferably find a profession that doesn't involve these communities.

4. Refuse to come to work until you've been paid. They can either fire you or they can pay you. Do it alone or with other staff. If they don't pay you, you're left with every other choice but 1.

5.Engage in mediation through your Beis Din.

6. Take legal action. Your state's labor board information is readily available online and they usually have very quick and efficient mediation procedures. You will be entitled to continue to work at the same school if you wish. Maybe that seems awkward, but no more awkward than taking orders from someone who owes you thousands of dollars which you seem fine with now.

amother

Salmon

Mon, Sep 04 2017, 10:26 am

OP here

Woah. This is why I always think twice about posting on this site and don't post often. My original post and responding posts have been taken so out of context and really unnecessary and rude things were said on this thread.

Let me clarify, when a school got very behind on checks, I switched schools. I did research on any school I accepted a job in and even then schools got behind on checks. Many of the suggestions that were listed, I've already tried. I'm not being stubborn, I appreciate the suggestions but I tried these things and they didn't work. I am open to exploring different areas of education but my passion is teaching in front of a classroom, I'm not sure why that was bashed. It's just what I enjoy most.

I did not write this to just complain, I wrote this because it's a really big problem and the community needs to be more aware of this. Yes I will change myself because I can't change the system, but it doesn't mean that I shouldn't make other people aware of this and hopefully it would create a bigger reaction in the community.

I wrote this as a vent, I'm so surprised how fast and nasty things got on here.

saw50st8

Mon, Sep 04 2017, 10:35 am

amother wrote:

OP needs the money. It's affecting her family negatively in the long term. Avoiding a beis din also means that schools get away with this basically forever. If they actually paid their staff on time and then tried to figure out how to pay for the mortgage, utilities etc, then there would somehow be money available for that. By placing their staff last, they are breaking halacha and forcing their staff into a terrible situation! It's absolute theft! This isn't delaying from friday to monday!

No frum publication will publish it, true. That's unfortunate in my opinion. But OP can write an anonymous blog post and have people share it on facebook and other social media. Bad publicity would absolutely get the wheels moving to paying the staff.

I agree that OP needs to own her situation.

I also agree that a school that can't regularly pay their staff should close. But they won't as long as the staff agrees to put up with this without naming names. If you publicize which schools are breaking halacha, who would send their kids to school there???? How can you be claiming to have appropriate chinuch when you are cheating and stealing as an institution??

petiteruchy

Mon, Sep 04 2017, 10:40 am

Just to clarify, I wasn't really snarking you. I 100% get that it's difficult to change jobs or professions or fight legal battles when it's your personal life. I was frustrated at all the posts arguing about whether girls go to Florida or which schools do this kind of thing.

I'm usually amother when discussing my profession but forget it. I work at a chassidic school where I'm always 100% paid on time. I have in the past gone to mediation (not a jewish school) over a pay dispute. There are relatively straight forward choices to make here. I do believe you know all of them, but you do have to choose.

This isn't a tricky personal relationship with two sides or grey areas or up sides and down sides, like choosing to stay with a spouse or dealing with an annoying MIL. This a straight forward black and white situation.