If you had the key to fixing it...

naomi2

Wed, Sep 06 2017, 11:30 am

saw50st8 wrote:

They are committed to being a lower cost school. It's $9500/student all in for grades K-5 (pre-K is a little less, 6th is a little more because the day is longer). They fundraise for scholarships separately from tuition increases. They implement cost savings (like some kids having english in the morning instead of hebrew to maximize the use of staff). The $9500 might be high compared to where you come from, but it's roughly 40% cheaper than the next school in town (keep in mind that teachers have masters in education and get paid appropriately and on time - they aren't hiring girls fresh out of seminary).

Here's the link for more information: http://www.yeshivatheatid.org/

There was quite a bit of pushback from some people but there were enough people willing to go along with it that it took off. It's growing in leaps and bounds. We happen to love the education model that focuses on learning through projects and allowing kids extra freedom. Kids rotate around the classroom to work independently, in groups or on computers. The kids can stand, move and sit in many different ways so they aren't stuffed into a chair all day long. It's a wonderful school and the middos they inspire are amazing. It's not for everyone - it is a co-ed modern orthodox school. But a similar type school could be opened almost anywhere as a single-relations school. As long as people are willing to think outside the box.

Sounds amazing

cnc

Wed, Sep 06 2017, 1:51 pm

amother wrote:

in terms of having the hebrew teachers teach in the afternoon as well. It's a "shita" to have the kids learn limudei kodesh in the morning to give it more chashivus. It will be hard to get more right wing schools to agree to changing that...

I can think of at least four or five RW schools offhand that have LK and LC subjects scattered throughout the day.

DrMom

Wed, Sep 06 2017, 1:54 pm

amother wrote:

It's hard to get anyone to change the way they do anything.
I guess that's why the OP asked her question.

amother

Smokey

Wed, Sep 06 2017, 2:19 pm

The reason I'm being vague is that, as I said, it doesn't present well unless you listen to the whole system.

Note that this does not directly address major administrative issues like tuition or underpaid teachers, although I believe that it would be easier to fundraise for a school with a smarter educational model, and it would be easier as a parent to have Mesiras Nefsh to pay for a school that teaches ALL aspects of Yiddishkeit and not just memorization!

To summarize the responses thus far:

Imasinger: Have an influential person introduce the idea to the "right" people (This makes a lot of sense, will need to think who I know that might fit the bill)

Crust: Put money into it (right now, not sure where to put the money!)

Imasoftov, FranticFrummie: Tell us what it is! (It will take a while to type it out, like I said it needs explanation. I'm sure I will at some point, and I would never sell anything sight unseen!)

Saw50st8, DrMom: Start a new school with this paradigm (This makes a lot of sense, although we live in a very small community that doesn't have its own school. We'd need to start with homeschoolers, or deal with a school from a distance.)

Imasinger: Find a school to host a trial, then go through conventional Chinuch channels

Chayalle: Get contemporary poskim/gedolim to approve it (good point, definitely worth doing)

Thank you everyone for the thoughtful responses!

MagentaYenta

Wed, Sep 06 2017, 2:24 pm

crust wrote:

The manuscript that you will need in order to succeed is called money.

That is why fundraising and curriculum development should be parallel efforts. I sat on a committee many years ago when my old schul was planning on opening a school. Nothing really happened until there was money, an operating budget and curriculum. When developing a financial plan we looked at how successful private schools managed. It is far easier to take working parts of someone else's successful model and adapt them for your own needs. The membership voted on goals and objectives and the vision of their school.

farm

Wed, Sep 06 2017, 2:56 pm

saw50st8 wrote:

Start a school in a more laid back community (ie not Brooklyn or Lakewood where there are control issues).
.

[b]

Ha ha. I was going to say to start a school in Lakewood. Seems like people there are so desperate to get their kids in a yeshiva, they might not be picky on the details! And if this approach is really life altering and awesome, word will get out.

saw50st8

Wed, Sep 06 2017, 6:49 pm

amother wrote:

Yes I know. But my kids understand that Torah is important. They also have davening first thing in the morning regardless of which side they start on. If the avirah in the school shows that Torah is paramount, the time of day you teach will not be a problem.

Sometimes, you have to give a little to get something. Imagine if your tuition was 40% cheaper. That would allow people to stress less, maybe even have more kids and have time to fulfil more mitzvos because they won't have to engage in as much work. Or people would actually be able to afford tuition.

There are many ways to establish chashivus hatorah. But like I said, you need a willing parent body in addition to educators, which is why I don't think something like this would work in Brooklyn or Lakewood. People would rather complain about affordability than compromise at all, even if the compromise doesn't actual detract from Torah learning.

farm wrote:

Ha ha. was going to say to start a school in Lakewood. Seems like people there are so desperate to get their kids in a yeshiva, they might not be picky on the details! And if this approach is really life altering and awesome, word will get out.

If it isn't vaad approved (and that's not always easy if you want to try some alternative things), people in Lakewood won't send there. People would rather lie.

amother

Smokey

Wed, Sep 06 2017, 9:08 pm

It's not my system, I didn't invent it and I can't patent it!

The reason I am not sharing it is that it needs to be explained to be understood - if I post the bare bones it will get shot down in 5 seconds (similar to how I reacted when I first saw it). The pieces by themselves are not a big chiddush (although the specificity and scope may be somewhat unusual), it is the combination, the order, and what is NOT included that makes this revolutionary.

I will PM you regardless, but you'll probably need to digest it before appreciating it. I can present it much better when I feel like I have the space of a full-length article or a 20 minute speech instead of a few paragraphs!

(And I see I'm doing a terrible job explaining even that Very Happy

)

amother

Amethyst

Wed, Sep 06 2017, 10:30 pm

I don't know.
While there are some issues with our current educational system, for the most part, we are doing a-ok.
Compare our students and grads morality to the world at large -- I would say our system is working.

At the end of the day, our schools can only be responsible for so much. The bulk of our childrens hashkofa and worldview should really be coming from the home. From watching their parents model Torah true values.

I dont think a over-haul of the system is smart or called for.

amother

Papaya

Wed, Sep 06 2017, 11:42 pm

crust wrote:

Am I missing the post where the OP said she has the approach?

Yes.

amother wrote:

This is less than 75 years old, and yes, we are talking about a world-renowned Gadol, not just a Rosh Yeshiva.

It should work well for out-of-the-box kids, because there is enough variety of learning and learning styles (book learning, discussions, history, language, practicals) that everyone should have something (or many somethings) for them. The goal seems to be to give everyone a solid foundation in being a Jew, no matter what type of life they choose (job, SAHM, Kollel, etc.)

I'm calling it a manuscript because, although it was printed, it was only printed as a paper booklet, and it seems that those who saw it before did not understand what they were seeing - like I said, it's not obvious at first glance. Additionally, some of the tools that make this a practical system were not developed until recently.

Money won't solve a faulty educational paradigm (but it would help a lot of other things!). This is a new educational paradigm.

Please keep the responses coming, I really appreciate the feedback.

[b]

amother

Violet

Thu, Sep 07 2017, 12:08 am

The Maharal of Prague had what seems like a very progressive educational philosophy. He said that children need to learn Chumash without Rashi at first, so they can be familiar with the text. They should concentrate on Mishna and halacha before Gemara and Tosfos. (He actually says that the only reason Tosfos is so popular is that it's printed on the side of a standard Shas.)
Generally he felt that kids need basic knowledge first and abstract reasoning later, when they are intellectually capable of it. Otherwise, when they get married and go to work (as Jews did through the generations!) they will be going out into the world with fancy ideas and no knowledge.