One of Us (new documentary about ex-Chassidish ppl)

Mommyg8

Sun, Sep 10 2017, 10:16 pm

I just took a psychology mini-class and they discussed whether mental illness is caused by genetics or environment. Studies seem to show that genetics is more the defining factor than environment. This class used schizophrenia as an example. I'm not sure if this was the case with other mental illnesses as well, if anyone has a psychology degree perhaps they can share that knowledge here, but the assumption, in this class that I took, seemed to be that most serious mental illness are caused by genetic factors rather than environmental factors.

Mental illness and abuse are not always related, however.

amother

Aubergine

Sun, Sep 10 2017, 10:22 pm

amother wrote:

That is not what I meant at all. Abuse and trauma can happen at home, at school, in camp, in the park, or anywhere.

Oh okay, once you add trauma to the mix then that could be possible. Though I wouldn't believe you that that is with every case unless you have scientific research to back that up.

In your original post that I took issue with then you wrote that you don't believe that any mental illness occurs without abuse. Abuse and trauma are two completely different things (though of course abuse causes trauma as well.)

amother

Floralwhite

Sun, Sep 10 2017, 10:24 pm

amother wrote:

🙊 my bad!

Btw, I said I have never met anyone...
I didn't make a claim that this is scientifically correct.

I actually have a friend who is conducting a study on this exact subject now, and she confirmed my belief. It's not published yet, and she seems to think that it's too radical to be accepted by any publications.

amother

Seashell

Sun, Sep 10 2017, 10:24 pm

amother wrote:

I am sorry that my post caused you pain. It was unintentional. Please forgive me.
Thank you for the Bracha.

Of course it wasn't your post. You seem very special. It's the people that abuse others that cause the pain. And I'm so sorry that you and your siblings had to go through that. So so sorry. Hugs.

Mommyg8

Sun, Sep 10 2017, 10:27 pm

sequoia wrote:

There's a lot of ignorance about this in "professional" circles. People are only now starting to realize how much, on the contrary, trauma has to do with it. For example I have C-PTSD; that can present as a lot of other things, which I'm sure some would be happy to blame on "genetics."

Are you saying that the professor of this psychology course was mistaken?

tweek

Sun, Sep 10 2017, 10:30 pm

The thing that bothers me in many of these books and documentaries, is when formerly frum Jews make it seem like anyone who thinks a bit deeper about things leaves, and that anyone who stays is just stuck and following the heard blindly.

Well, I and many others who I associate with think about things and decide not to leave ! We consciously keep our eyes and minds open and sift through the confusion sometimes caused by misguided and wacky individuals, and stick to our guns and hold on to the things that are real and near and dear to us.

I applaud people who think things through and figure out a way to make life and Yiddishkeit work for them (like Maya and others who have written similar stories even though we probably live a very different version of yiddishkeit). I don't necessarily see those who just leave everything behind to party and live a life that even by secular standards is not seen as a quality life, as people to be admired or put on a pedestal.

creditcards

Sun, Sep 10 2017, 10:34 pm

amother wrote:

🙊 my bad!

There usually is trauma that triggers the breakdown or whatever mental illness, but there has to be a gene for it to be triggered. Mental illness runs in families...that's a fact that we see them running in families.
We also see people going through crazy things in their lives, and they remain perfectly normal. That's because they do not have this gene. There are so many talented women that you would never believe what they went through because they are just so normal.
You may be right that if a person has the gene and was never traumatized whatsoever in their life they may never have a breakdown.
But most people do have some type of trauma at some point in their life to trigger it if they have the gene.

Last edited by creditcards on Sun, Sep 10 2017, 10:40 pm; edited 1 time in total

das

Sun, Sep 10 2017, 10:34 pm

Floral white, do you have experience with mental illness?

I do, and in the case of a dear friend that struggles with bipolar, and has crippling depression and intense mania, there was absolutely no abuse in her life. Normal amount of stress. What she did have was a family history of bipolar (which comes out during menopause, her parent with bipolar did not have it while raising her). Cancer can also have environmental causes but when you hear of someone with cancer you dont blame stress or the environment. You realize something went wrong on a cellular level.

I highly recommend you read this book. It is very eye-opening.

https://www.amazon.com/Perfect.....CBMDE

amother

Tangerine

Sun, Sep 10 2017, 10:43 pm

amother wrote:

I have every right to use my mind and state my opinions. You don't have to buy into them, just like I don't have to buy into yours.

BTW, you are absolutely right that I lose a lot of credibility by posting anonymously.

I'm sorry for offending you, but know that it was not personal until you made it personal, by bringing a personal issue into a theoretical conversation.

Stating that abuse is the only cause of illness is not an opinion. It's factually incorrect.

amother

Floralwhite

Sun, Sep 10 2017, 10:43 pm

creditcards wrote:

Nature vs. nurture does not come into play here?! Are you sure?
Running in families can mean that certain thought patterns run in certain families. Can't it?
I mean if matriarch had dysfunctional thought patterns, but did not get diagnosed with mental illness, and then two of her children adopted said thought patterns but much more deeply ingrained, and then their kids adopted same thought patterns.
Now what happens if there is trauma to any of the children with these thought patterns?
If they develop mental illness, do we say that it is caused by a genetic mutation?
What about the fact that we now know that genes evolve (is that the right word?) throughout our life, based on different factors?

I think about these things, because yes, I've had exposure to mental illness, and I'm a curious person.

So, I'm questioning the statement that when mental illness runs in families it's caused by genetic predisposition, on a completely physical level.

amother

Floralwhite

Sun, Sep 10 2017, 10:46 pm

das wrote:

Thanks for sharing! It looks like a good read.

cnc

Sun, Sep 10 2017, 11:00 pm

amother wrote:

Many times the environment affects whether or not the genetic predisposition will be brought out.

creditcards

Sun, Sep 10 2017, 11:04 pm

amother wrote:

I know a real cute popular teenage girl. Her mother has mental illness. Her parents are divorced. She lived with her mother until last year. Now she lives with her aunt. There is no doubt that she had trauma and possibly abuse in her life. Yet she is perfectly ok, because she does not carry the gene. She lived with her mother and her mother's thought process had the ability to go through to her.

I know another boy in a different family. Where the family seems loving and they seem to have a nice environment. I know that he was a little depressed for a while before he Had a nervous breakdown, because he felt very accomplished, in his own words, nobody helped him...he had a nervous breakdown.

So we see 2 people. Both have stressful or traumatizing lives and only one suffers a breakdown. Can we assume that the one who suffered a breakdown had the gene?

amother

Floralwhite

Sun, Sep 10 2017, 11:10 pm

amother wrote:

So it's an observation, rather than an opinion.

Is it you opinion that ladies who have post partum depression must have had traumatic birthing experiences?

This entire discussion was worth it for me to have read this question.
I don't know the answer, but I intend to find out eventually.
It will really help me in my career. Thank you!