S/o Please help me be less judgemental to "In towners"

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LovesHashem

Sat, Sep 16 2017, 1:06 pm

I'm not going anon, even though I really want to. I feel like I should be able to have the guts to write this under my own screen-name.

DISCLAIMER: I am going to talk VERY generally. There are MANY people who live in town that do NOT act the way I'm describing. I personally know many wonderful and nice in towners, I'm simply referring to a group inside the label "in town". It's not a minority, and also not the maority of in towners"

Conffesion- I HATE in towners. Soooo much! I know I'm kinda generalizng. Please understand, my best friend comes from in town, but whenever I meet her extended family it's so hard to hold a basic conversation. I get on their nerves before I have even spoken. As a child from OOT I went to an in towny camp (one known to be very jappy-but I was OOT and didn't know anything about sleepaway camps, it sounded fun, so I went) B"H, although I went alone there were other OOT's there, and most of my bunk was like that and I had a blast, but again there was a group of intowners and on the first day a girl walked up to me and said "I don't like you". She never spoke to me again, neither did all of her group and they deliberately tried to ruin my summer on many occasions, pitting girls against me, going as far as lying and cheating and spreading unbased rumors to make me look bad.

In my teens, we moved and I went to a school that had a lot of in towners. Girls who wouldn't look in my direction most of the time, or many girls that were polite enough to do so but were not respecful of me if we were in the privacy of the classroom or somewhere else where girls wouldn't notice how mean they'd be. For example, I was taking a list down of girls who were exempt from something, or I was asking a girl where her bag was, and she began to answer me- and midsentance a friend would call her and she would just drop the conversation entirely...midsentance.

I get if there was one girl like this, except that this happened tens of times with many girls in my class. I'd say about 20 from my class and ten from the parallel class acted like this.

I left school, got married, and I'm moving on with life. But I still meet people all the time who won't give me the time of day, or do so in a polite way but the undertones are understood. I'm not wanted, I'm an outsider, I am not deserving of respect. My "in town" BFF tells me I need to be dan lkaf zchut, and they are so self conscious, and in their society- you need to earn respect by talking, walking, shopping like them.

I still feel like that isn't a free pass for being a jerk. I mean, sure if wherever they comes from, that's the norm- they need to realize that there's an entire world that doesn't work that way. They expect me to rise above and learn how to act, talk, shop, and walk like them but I can't. For the life of me, I'm an OOT. I don't care about designer labels, and love to get dirty, and say what I feel non diplomatically. I make friends with strangers, say hello to everyone I see, stroll slowly down streets, and tell people when I'm confused about something they said. I smile to strangers, and live life vividly, having fun and appreciating every color and moment on the way, I take notice in small things, and make other's notice too....

Ok so I can't be in town. And I'll never be respected by them, but I want to try and understand what brings them to act the way they do, and try to love them anyway.

amother

Coral

Sat, Sep 16 2017, 4:11 pm

I am sorry this post is sad. I assume u r a grown woman, an adult. "In town" is a cult. Simple. It is a "frum" lifestyle, a culture of sorts. If they dont give you time of day, take it as a compliment, because it is. It means real things matter to you and not g-ish nariskeit that has no place in a Jew"s life...Hashem loves you and thats the only thing that matters.. Please there are so many more things to really worry about before Rosh Hashana besides being part of the "in town " brooklyn/ flatbush ir hakodesh cult...ure. Rolling Eyes

Ruchel

Sat, Sep 16 2017, 4:44 pm

Mmmmm. This has to be cultural. I moved "in town" because I found OOT posh and clickish. Here I have women coming to me to greet me, kiss me... and I'm the one not remembering them, shamefully. Maybe it's about a town I don't know about.

pesek zman

Sat, Sep 16 2017, 8:27 pm

I'm sorry I don't understand this post

What are In towners? Is that another way of saying NY ers? Or people from Brooklyn?

Genuinely do not understand

mommy3b2c

Sat, Sep 16 2017, 8:40 pm

I think youre being ridiculous. Most people from brooklyn (I assume thats what you are referring to) are not nasty and rude. I dont know who you hung out with. I am from brooklyn. Almost everyone I meet is polite and friendly and sweet. Maybe you atteact nasty people.

zaq

Sat, Sep 16 2017, 8:50 pm

Op isn't talking about urban vs suburban or rural, nor is she talking about college students (gowns) vs permanent residents of college towns (towns). She means people from the districts of Brooklyn. Lakewood and Monsey. People from the other boroughs of NYC are considered OOT. I'm not sure about people from parts of Brooklyn outside of the enclaves of Crown Heights-Borough Park--Wlliiamsburg.

yehudis1056

Sat, Sep 16 2017, 9:12 pm

You "HATE" in towners? I mean really? Isn't that a very strong word? I understand that you were hurt by their behavior but what you are describing doesn't sound soooooo horrible (pls remember children and teenagers aren't exactly known for their tact and consideration no matter where they live) that you should HATE (emphasis yours) them.

you are describing nasty things that certain girls did that means that many many ppl from in town behave that way?? What kind of logic is that? In your example from camp you talk about one girl. Guess what a girl from OOT made my life miserable in seminary. Should I assume that everyone from OOT is like her?

And as for the rest of your complaints, yes you are generalizing in the extreme.

You say at the end of your rant you can't be in town but you want to love them anyway. Um ya right. Sounds more like you wanted to rant about in town. Which is fine. Just don't shroud it in trying to love your fellow Jew.

33055

Sat, Sep 16 2017, 9:20 pm

mommy3b2c wrote:

Your post is not very nice. OP is coming from a place where she is hurting.

Your experiences with people in town could be different if you dress the walk and talk the talk. There are all kinds of social cues that serve to exclude people.

I have had great experiences on an individual level with people from Broolyn, but I fit in maybe because I have lived in more upscale urban areas.

I have spoken with friends of mine who were shunned by in-towers. They have asked me why I was accepted and not them. It hurts and is painful. OP deserves empathy.

On a community level there are many people from Brooklyn who are pushy and shovey. Try buying flowers eruv Shabbos on the street corner and half a dozen people will grab and push and shove in front. Go to a kiddish, and the kids will be grabbing food with their hands. No, kids do not behave like animals everywhere.

ckk

Sat, Sep 16 2017, 9:33 pm

I totally hear the op loud and clear.
Its very possible that those not understanding her talk the talk, walk the walk and wear the clothes of intowners so they were never subjected to this kind of demeaning snobbyness.

And its not just about the children. Adults too unfortunately.

Op, my advice to you is to simply pity these small minded cultish people. They live a very small and boring life and don't have the breadth of mind, or often simply the guts, to explore the companionship of people who are even slightly beyond their realm of norm.

You are a good and fine person and don't need miss boro parks approval to be of value.

amother

Cyan

Sat, Sep 16 2017, 9:44 pm

Seriously? I'm from "in town". Guess what? I got married and moved out of town. The nastiness I was met with because I was from Brooklyn... I was told "we don't like New Yorkers here" and "oh your one of them". I don't recall having rude experiences when I met new people in Brooklyn, but here, oot, I am labeled and judged right away when they hear where I came from. I don't think all oot people are nasty. I know there are rude people in Brooklyn. I think it's immature to label an entire city based and your experience there. Because if we all did that, every place would be considered a nasty, rude place.

mommy3b2c

Sat, Sep 16 2017, 9:44 pm

Squishy wrote:

I'm sorry, but hurting doesn't give you the right to stereotype and put down thousands of people. There are nasty people from all over. I hate that because I'm from Brooklyn I have to be fine with people calling me a pushy, snob. I'm not okay with it.

yehudis1056

Sat, Sep 16 2017, 9:50 pm

Squishy wrote:

Your post is not very nice.

On a community level there are many people from Brooklyn who are pushy and shovey. Try buying flowers eruv Shabbos on the street corner and half a dozen people will grab and push and shove in front. Go to a kiddish, and the kids will be grabbing food with their hands. No, kids do not behave like animals everywhere.

I find it ironic that you are telling her her post is nt very nice when u are saying kids from Brooklyn behave like animals.

southernbubby

Sat, Sep 16 2017, 9:51 pm

Squishy wrote:

I think that the difference, being that I live out of town(but some of my kids are in-town), is that out of towners know each other and everyone counts. Everyone is important and needed. No one is taken for granted. The school principal shows up at all of the simchas, out-of-town. At minyon, every man figures that he is the tenth. People swap clothes and it is normal to wear someone else's stuff. No one judges you if your kids yom tov clothes were purchased at Target, Walmart, or a thrift store, because there is no communal standard for materialism. In towners often know each other so well that they prefer to marry people from other communities.

What is missing, though, out of town, is the good work that can be done with lots of manpower. If someone needs help, there may not be enough money or manpower to give all of the needed help, even if everyone would like to help. This, of course, depends on both the size of the community and the factions that exist. The kollel crowd is different from the YI crowd or the Chabad crowd and different types of help are available in each crowd but there may not be a universal concerted effort.

mommy3b2c

Sat, Sep 16 2017, 9:55 pm

southernbubby wrote:

You are stereotyping. Who says that everyone in Brooklyn judges for you for buying clothing in target or Walmart. I buy plenty of clothing in target and even if I didn't, what makes you think I care if you do???

Maya

Sat, Sep 16 2017, 9:57 pm

ckk wrote:

Op, my advice to you is to simply pity these small minded cultish people. They live a very small and boring life and don't have the breadth of mind, or often simply the guts, to explore the companionship of people who are even slightly beyond their realm of norm.

Wow. Just wow.

amother

Linen

Sat, Sep 16 2017, 9:57 pm

I grew up in Lakewood back when it was out of town and the Brooklyn people all made fun of us. Then they all moved here. Even though people don't think I grew up here and I am very stylish and confident (so I'm not on the receiving end of snobbiness), I never fully got rid of that resentment - you all hate it so much stop moving here.

anonymom

Sat, Sep 16 2017, 9:58 pm

I can address the "help me be less judgemental to ________" you can fill in the blank with anything.
Hashem created all of us imperfect so that we can become better. And he loves us all and he wants us to become better and to love each other. And when we see someone imperfect we have an opportunity to look for the good and increase the love and cause Hashem to look with rachamim on our imperfect selves.

33055

Sat, Sep 16 2017, 9:58 pm

mommy3b2c wrote:

She said there were many people who don't act that way. But there are many people who do act that way which gives rise to the stereotype. OP didn't invent it. She obviously triggered something in you to have replied so sharply to her.

mommy3b2c

Sat, Sep 16 2017, 10:05 pm

Squishy wrote:

Yes. She triggered my annoyance of hypocrisy.

33055

Sat, Sep 16 2017, 10:05 pm

mommy3b2c wrote:

Aren't you the one with the baby fashion thread? I am so confused.

Does what the babies wear matter or not?

They are not saying everyone is judging, but there is a big contingency who judge people. When I go to Brooklyn, I get so many comments on my outfits and what my kids are wearing. The minutiae is noted. What you are wearing is a thing that matters there.

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