Doesn't want to go to shul

amother

Ivory

Sun, Sep 17 2017, 5:06 am

My parents are also BTs and they expected me to go to shul on shabbos/yt, and to daven at home on sundays/vacations. I hated it, it was just a chore I had to get over with in order to enjoy my day.

The minute I got married I basically stopped going, and I won't ever make my kids go (much to my parent's disappointment).

Don't force, lead my example, and it will be something she'll either connect to or not, but it won't be in your control, and if it's NOT something she connects to she'll resent it and will be more likely to drop it as an adult.

amother

Ivory

Sun, Sep 17 2017, 5:13 am

My4Jewels wrote:

Would you all say the same for teenage boys? Just wondering.

Yes, for the same reason. People either love/connect to davening, or don't. If they don't, they won't go as an adult, and if you force them as a kids they'll be even less likely to.

In my MO/DL community, a sizeable group of men go to shul as infrequently as possible, and when they do they stay for a short time and socialize. The ones who want to be there are there, and the ones that don't, it's obvious that they're there out of a sense of reluctant duty and guilt only.

The boys should always know it'll make you proud/happy if they show up, but without making it into a fight or an issue, IMO.

mommy3b2c

Sun, Sep 17 2017, 6:06 am

My4Jewels wrote:

Would you all say the same for teenage boys? Just wondering.

You don't see the difference between boys and girls? A 13 year old boy actually has a chiyuv to daven with a minyan. There is absolutely NO reason for a girl to be forced to go to shul.

That being said, I don't know if it would be wise to force a thirteen year old boy to go to shul, but I would probably offer some sweet incentive to him to make him want to go.

amother

Red

Sun, Sep 17 2017, 6:21 am

I'm the OP. Of course, I daven at shul. I see everyone's point about not forcing her to daven. I just don't see how not requiring her to do the barest minimum is going to have any difference. Most kids I see don't have a natural desire to connect to Hashem. My point of view is that if they know how to be in shul and are comfortable then one day they might more easily make that connection. I'm not asking 2 1/2 hours of shul.
I don't understand this "women are not required" attitude. If we have no child rearing obligations, we are all required. And I learned if we daven, it's better to daven with the kehilla.

amother

Mint

Sun, Sep 17 2017, 6:29 am

I'll repeat what others have said. Do not force it. We are ultra Orthodox and I don't tell my boys under 13 to go to shul and would never tell my daughters to go to shul at all. If they want to go, they go, if not, they don't.

Just continue to serve as a positive role model and let her come around on her own. She's still young. FTR, I hated davening as a kid and daven regularly now. You need to let her develop her own relationship with Hashem.

It might also be an idea to show her that davening can happen anywhere and not only in shul. As a women I believe it is more important for your daughter to have a relationship with Hashem at home as there will be many times bez'h when she will be unable to go to shul.

saralem

Sun, Sep 17 2017, 6:38 am

Especially with teenagers, as hard as it is for parents, we need to let them make some decisions. Not going to shul is pretty benign. If she is generally a good, respectful kid, please allow her to be herself. As a longtime BT with grown children, my experience is that giving them space, love and respect goes a very long way. For us, becoming drum was so precious and important. It's easy to perceive this as a rejection of the most important decision we made in our lives. Don't let it be personal for you. Your beautiful daughter's relationship with Hashem is up to her to find and cultivate. Wishing you success. BTDT.

causemommysaid

Sun, Sep 17 2017, 6:39 am

amother wrote:

You probably don't need another person telling you that you are wrong but I think you are making a huge mistake.

Forcing children especially teenagers to do things almost always backfires. Unless it is something that will cause them harm by not doing such as taking medication or going to school the best thing you can do is lead by example, soft encouragement, and incentives. Brute force will cause them to resent it and drop it the minute you don't have control anymore.

cnc

Sun, Sep 17 2017, 6:47 am

amother wrote:

I learned that we are required unless we have child rearing obligations, but I never learned or came across that women should preferably daven with a minyan or the kehilla.

My4Jewels

Sun, Sep 17 2017, 7:02 am

I also am confused.. so nobody requires their teenage boys or girls to go to shul or daven ? What if they don't want to wear kippahs? Or girls want to wear sleeveless? Don't we make other religious bare minimum requirements? I just don't know where the line is really? For those saying leave them be that should apply to all things religious not just davening.

How do you guys handle those things?

Thanks

cnc

Sun, Sep 17 2017, 7:17 am

My4Jewels wrote:

I wasn't aware that teenage girls going to shul and dressing b'tznius fall under the same category. In my community, the idea of girls going to shul is basically unheard of. We do daven at home though.

amother

Powderblue

Sun, Sep 17 2017, 7:30 am

My4Jewels wrote:

As a kid of one bt and one ffb parent, my take is that lo ta'aseh mitzvot are easier and more reasonable to enforce than ta'aseh. E.g. No, you may not buy that top that pulls too much or exposes too much; no, you may not break Shabbos (at least publicly).

I'm sure there are ta'aseh mitzvot more worth encouraging than others, but davening has got to be one of the easiest ones to backfire, especially if you push for more than the minimum (and shul-going is much more than the minimum for girls, other than megilla, parshat zachor, and shofar).

mommy3b2c

Sun, Sep 17 2017, 7:35 am

My4Jewels wrote:

I am confused about how you are comparing teenage boys to teenage girls when it comes to davenjng in shul.

I'm also confused about how you are comparing wearing sleeveless shirts to not going to shul for a girl?

My4Jewels

Sun, Sep 17 2017, 8:14 am

mommy3b2c wrote:

To me these are religious requirements. Going to shul, davening, dressing tzniut. So if someone is of the belief that pushing teens to do religious things will back fire I am wondering where do they draw the line? Seems like a reasonable question to me. Someone said that each kid has their own relationship with god and by modeling the correct behavior they will see what is correct. So that goes for everything? Just trying to figure out my own insecurities in raising my own family.

causemommysaid

Sun, Sep 17 2017, 8:15 am

My4Jewels wrote:

Tznius is very delicate. I would try to teach my daughters the beauty of the mitzvah (which would be hard as I struggle myself) I would also set a bare minimum based on community standards and the school they attend and look away for the rest.

I don't want my daughters scarred the way I was by having Tznius shoved down my throat.

ttbtbm

Sun, Sep 17 2017, 8:19 am

My4Jewels wrote:

Would you all say the same for teenage boys? Just wondering.

Yes!! But teenage girls have more leeway to save face for not being in shul. They can be watching their younger siblings or neighbors or helping get the yom tov meal ready. Teenage boys have fewer outs.
Encourage (don't nag), support, model and leave it at that.