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-> Chinuch, Education & Schooling
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amother
Amber
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 Mon, Sep 18 2017, 6:10 pm
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A close relative of ours had a baby a short time after the wedding. How do I tell my Yeshiva kids about this? Should I wait a few months?
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tichellady
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Mon, Sep 18 2017, 6:56 pm
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How old are your kids? How much do they know about sx? Why questions are you worrying about? If they are sheltered, Why do you think they would even think it's weird that the baby was born close to the wedding?
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amother
Amber
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Mon, Sep 18 2017, 7:07 pm
| tichellady wrote: | | How old are your kids? How much do they know about sx? Why questions are you worrying about? If they are sheltered, Why do you think they would even think it's weird that the baby was born close to the wedding? |
They are in tgeir low teens. They dont know mich about sx..but they do know babies are born 9 mnths.
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simba
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Mon, Sep 18 2017, 7:12 pm
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At this point what info do they have? Where do they think babies come from. This is a hard one, maybe use this opportunity to introduce them to more. Sometimes a real life example is best. Is this couple seemingly frum? Because that can confuse things for them a bit more.
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amother
Scarlet
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Mon, Sep 18 2017, 7:17 pm
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I'm confused as to why they need to be told anything. It's really no one's business, especially not children.
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chestnut
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Mon, Sep 18 2017, 7:19 pm
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Did they see the bride was pregnant at the wedding?
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amother
Navy
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Mon, Sep 18 2017, 7:22 pm
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I'd wait till they ask. No need to make a family meeting to announce this development. If they notice that the timeline doesn't match up and ask, then you need to be honest. You don't have to mention sx if you don't want to, just say a baby can be made outside of marriage but according to the Torah it's not allowed, one must wait till after marriage. But if someone does slip up, it's not our business, same way it's not our business when someone decides to eat a cheeseburger.
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thunderstorm
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Mon, Sep 18 2017, 7:35 pm
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There such a thing as babies being born prematurely. Why should they question?
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Fox
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Mon, Sep 18 2017, 7:39 pm
The most important lesson to teach your children is this: we do not inquire or speculate regarding the contents of other people's wombs.
Nor do we use our friends and relatives as characters in our morality tales.
For pre-teen children, the answer is that sometimes babies come earlier than expected. The world is full of premature babies who just happen to weigh 9 lbs at birth.
Obviously, your children will figure it out at some point, but by that time, they will have hopefully mastered the art of feigning complete lack of interest in calculating the period of time between the wedding and the bris.
This is actually a two-fer. Learning to ignore the reproductive activities of others will also prevent them from making insensitive remarks to TTC couples, adoptive families, and the panoply of other family formations they may encounter over the years.
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Miri7
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Mon, Sep 18 2017, 7:47 pm
| Fox wrote: | The most important lesson to teach your children is this: we do not inquire or speculate regarding the contents of other people's wombs.
Nor do we use our friends and relatives as characters in our morality tales.
For pre-teen children, the answer is that sometimes babies come earlier than expected. The world is full of premature babies who just happen to weigh 9 lbs at birth.
Obviously, your children will figure it out at some point, but by that time, they will have hopefully mastered the art of feigning complete lack of interest in calculating the period of time between the wedding and the bris.
This is actually a two-fer. Learning to ignore the reproductive activities of others will also prevent them from making insensitive remarks to TTC couples, adoptive families, and the panoply of other family formations they may encounter over the years. |
Fox, we don't agree on everything but I'm with you on this one. I especially love the bolded.
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simba
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Mon, Sep 18 2017, 8:26 pm
| Fox wrote: | The most important lesson to teach your children is this: we do not inquire or speculate regarding the contents of other people's wombs.
Nor do we use our friends and relatives as characters in our morality tales.
For pre-teen children, the answer is that sometimes babies come earlier than expected. The world is full of premature babies who just happen to weigh 9 lbs at birth.
Obviously, your children will figure it out at some point, but by that time, they will have hopefully mastered the art of feigning complete lack of interest in calculating the period of time between the wedding and the bris.
This is actually a two-fer. Learning to ignore the reproductive activities of others will also prevent them from making insensitive remarks to TTC I couples, adoptive families, and the panoply of other family formations they may encounter over the years. |
I almost disagree with it all!
This baby is out of the womb. My six year old wouldn't notice anything. They are marri d now they have a baby, exactly how he knows it should be. They are a bit older..no reason to shelter them.
This is not to use the couple as a morality tale but to teach them a bit about real world reproduction. Does not need to be in a judgemental way.
I would not lie to my kids and say it is a preemie..just cause they did something wrong I also should?
You don't have to whitewash everything for your kids..yes, even in non frum circles having a baby out of wedlock is not the most laudable activity. As parents when you see someone talking not nicely or stealing I would sure us th eoppurtunity to show my kids how not to behave. Why the liberalism here?
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amother
Amber
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Mon, Sep 18 2017, 8:50 pm
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Op here..in this case the baby would be born 8 mnths premature..its their first cousin( they think he is frum) ..since we wont be seeing the baby for awhile anyway, I just wanted to know if its best to just not say anything at all..its just hard keeping it to myself ( new babies are always exciting..no matter how they happen!!!)
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simba
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Mon, Sep 18 2017, 8:55 pm
| amother wrote: | | Op here..in this case the baby would be born 8 mnths premature..its their first cousin( they think he is frum) ..since we wont be seeing the baby for awhile anyway, I just wanted to know if its best to just not say anything at all..its just hard keeping it to myself ( new babies are always exciting..no matter how they happen!!!) |
You could stay quite, will do no harm. I would tell them about it and take their lead with the questions. They will know this info at some point, and likely sooner then you would like to think. You have the opportunity it's to be the one to control what they know and how they hear it.
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MagentaYenta
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Mon, Sep 18 2017, 8:59 pm
| amother wrote: | | Op here..in this case the baby would be born 8 mnths premature..its their first cousin( they think he is frum) ..since we wont be seeing the baby for awhile anyway, I just wanted to know if its best to just not say anything at all..its just hard keeping it to myself ( new babies are always exciting..no matter how they happen!!!) |
He would still be frum wouldn't he? He'd be a sinner, but he still would be frum. Or is there something I'm missing.
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Fox
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Mon, Sep 18 2017, 9:16 pm
| simba wrote: | | As parents when you see someone talking not nicely or stealing I would sure us the oppurtunity to show my kids how not to behave. |
Let's follow this line of reasoning through. Precisely what are you going to say to your teenager that will provide some kind of useful life lesson?
"Obviously Aunt Geraldine and Uncle Max were fooling around before the wedding, because here it is not six months later and they just had a baby! I certainly hope you never do such a thing!"
or
"What a shanda to the family. Not married six months and having a baby! What will people think? And they both came from such nice families! Don't you ever disgrace us that way!"
or even
"Whew! To be honest, we're all kind of relieved. The whole family thought Uncle Max was gay. Apparently not. Or at least not very gay."
Casting your relatives as bad examples is only going to open up several avenues of thought or conversation, and none of them is good:
* A conversation of this nature is going to inexorably lead to speculation about your relatives' s-x lives or their contraceptive failures. Given the resources available for presenting the facts of life to kids of all ages, I can't imagine a situation in which loshen hora about specific people or situations -- and with whom the child is acquainted, no less! -- would be justified.
* Are you sure your child's filter is as good as you think? Do you really want young Master Chaim to blurt out, "Mazel tov, Uncle Max! Everyone is so happy you're not gay after all!" or for young Miss Shaindy to say, "So Aunt Geraldine, did you, like, forget to take your pill or something?" If you think your pre-teen is too savvy to say any such thing, there are plenty of us here who can disabuse you of the notion.
"Whitewashing" is precisely what is needed. How many threads have we had on Imamother where someone in a vulnerable position has been hurt by a thoughtless inquiry or comment? There are certain things that polite people don't notice. Included in that category are the number of months between weddings and births; the timing and frequency of births; the attractiveness and health of new babies; the appearance of pregnancy or lack thereof; and most definitely, the activities on the part of people that led to the pregnancy.
None of that is incompatible with providing, according to your preference, either detailed or vague s-x education. None of it precludes discussing the Torah view of love and marriage with your child or educating your child about contraception, safe s-x, or whatever else you think necessary.
However, children need to learn that there are things that are appropriate to know but are nevertheless inappropriate to speculate about or discuss. Otherwise they will grow up into adults who whisper when a childless woman walks into the room or who offer unsolicited opinions about the spacing or frequency of reproduction.
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tichellady
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Mon, Sep 18 2017, 9:35 pm
| Fox wrote: | Let's follow this line of reasoning through. Precisely what are you going to say to your teenager that will provide some kind of useful life lesson?
"Obviously Aunt Geraldine and Uncle Max were fooling around before the wedding, because here it is not six months later and they just had a baby! I certainly hope you never do such a thing!"
or
"What a shanda to the family. Not married six months and having a baby! What will people think? And they both came from such nice families! Don't you ever disgrace us that way!"
or even
"Whew! To be honest, we're all kind of relieved. The whole family thought Uncle Max was gay. Apparently not. Or at least not very gay."
Casting your relatives as bad examples is only going to open up several avenues of thought or conversation, and none of them is good:
* A conversation of this nature is going to inexorably lead to speculation about your relatives' s-x lives or their contraceptive failures. Given the resources available for presenting the facts of life to kids of all ages, I can't imagine a situation in which loshen hora about specific people or situations -- and with whom the child is acquainted, no less! -- would be justified.
* Are you sure your child's filter is as good as you think? Do you really want young Master Chaim to blurt out, "Mazel tov, Uncle Max! Everyone is so happy you're not gay after all!" or for young Miss Shaindy to say, "So Aunt Geraldine, did you, like, forget to take your pill or something?" If you think your pre-teen is too savvy to say any such thing, there are plenty of us here who can disabuse you of the notion.
"Whitewashing" is precisely what is needed. How many threads have we had on Imamother where someone in a vulnerable position has been hurt by a thoughtless inquiry or comment? There are certain things that polite people don't notice. Included in that category are the number of months between weddings and births; the timing and frequency of births; the attractiveness and health of new babies; the appearance of pregnancy or lack thereof; and most definitely, the activities on the part of people that led to the pregnancy.
None of that is incompatible with providing, according to your preference, either detailed or vague s-x education. None of it precludes discussing the Torah view of love and marriage with your child or educating your child about contraception, safe s-x, or whatever else you think necessary.
However, children need to learn that there are things that are appropriate to know but are nevertheless inappropriate to speculate about or discuss. Otherwise they will grow up into adults who whisper when a childless woman walks into the room or who offer unsolicited opinions about the spacing or frequency of reproduction. |
Totally agree!
Also just want to remind Op and everyone else that not every child is the product of consentual sx or sx at all.
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33055
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Mon, Sep 18 2017, 9:56 pm
| amother wrote: | | Op here..in this case the baby would be born 8 mnths premature..its their first cousin( they think he is frum) ..since we wont be seeing the baby for awhile anyway, I just wanted to know if its best to just not say anything at all..its just hard keeping it to myself ( new babies are always exciting..no matter how they happen!!!) |
You don't have to say anything at all. 8 months is not 2.
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amother
Amber
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Mon, Sep 18 2017, 10:09 pm
| Squishy wrote: | | You don't have to say anything at all. 8 months is not 2. | the baby was born a month after the wedding...I was saying the baby is 8 mnths early..that would be very premature.
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amother
Lilac
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Mon, Sep 18 2017, 10:10 pm
I wouldn't tell them unless they were going to meet the baby.
I would wait long enough that the age of the baby can be vague and the length of time married can be confused.
a kid doesn't keep track of how long a couple is married. Eventually you can mention that they have a cousin who's about half a year old or "something" when the baby can be less than 1 or so. By then the wedding will be in the long ago past and the timeline can get blurred.
If your kids will meet this baby sooner then obviously you can't get away with this.
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amother
Amber
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Mon, Sep 18 2017, 10:15 pm
| MagentaYenta wrote: | | He would still be frum wouldn't he? He'd be a sinner, but he still would be frum. Or is there something I'm missing. |
I didnt mean he is not frum because of this...he is otd a long time ago but when he comes to my house he keeps shabbos so they assume that he is frum...my kids are still young so as open as I am with them.., I do try to shelter them a bit so I dont have to go into detail about everything...They do kind of repeat everything I say to their friends and I do like some privacy.
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