"You're offered a three-month total exemption from Torah...

Raisin

Wed, Sep 27 2017, 8:06 am

amother wrote:

Forgive me but I think many people are terrified to entertain this train train if thought because what if heaven forbid... himmel geshrei... they actually enjoy the three months off? It's a terrifying thought for many

Oh, I'm quite sure there are many delicious non kosher foods. (and foods that are not available in kosher eg cheese) But I don't miss them. I would miss them if I would eat them for a few months.

InnerMe

Wed, Sep 27 2017, 10:05 am

amother wrote:

I'm bowing out of this controversial sticky discussion and dangerous one too.
There is no hypothetical Hashem!!! chas v'Shalom.
Hashem is REAL.
And Hashem gives no Yid an exemption from keeping the Torah, not even for a millisecond.

May Hashem Bless you all with an easy fast, and a most beautiful and Torah'dik year in all aspects.

I'm sorry my post was misconstrued. I meant hypothetical scenario. I just used hypothetical as a noun describing the scenario, perhaps against grammar rules.
I went back and edited. Because I'd never write as an adjective for G-d hypothetical.
Yes this was interpreted in a terribly wrong way far from what my intent was.

InnerMe

Wed, Sep 27 2017, 10:08 am

Quote:

And Hashem gives no Yid an exemption from keeping the Torah, not even for a millisecond.

As to above.. I can see how just discussing this imaginitive example can be controversial.
I started this because the question intrigued me, and I wanted to hear how others see this.. and explore the topic. And that's why it's hypothetical.
Noone's thinking that Hashem gives exemptions. Sometimes it's helpful to use fantasy scenarios to explore deeper topics. But if that doesn't work for you, that's perfectly understandable.

amother

Cerulean

Wed, Sep 27 2017, 10:12 am

Raisin wrote:

Oh, I'm quite sure there are many delicious non kosher foods. (and foods that are not available in kosher eg cheese) But I don't miss them. I would miss them if I would eat them for a few months.

I wasn't referring to you. I was refferring to the posters that are not being honest with themselves. To admit that Judaism isn't sp easy for them- that we all have secret desires because we're all human- is a terrifying thought to some people. So they bury it under the rationalization that " it's too scary to think like this to live without GD". As if Hashem only exists in the Mitzvah observant world. As if you can't have a relationship with GD if you don't conform to contemporary Chareidism. As if GD only watches over a select few.

InnerMe

Wed, Sep 27 2017, 10:21 am

amother wrote:

I'm presuming that your post is referring to me, since it follows my post.

I agree with you wholeheartedly. In no way do I claim to be holy, or holier than any other Yid or member on this site.
Only Hashem KNOWS what goes on in every person's heart. And who is genuine.

And because my answer is that I couldn't even entertain the thought of chas v'Shalom a hypothetical Hashem and Him exempting us from following the Torah for a short time, that does not make me holier than other members on this site who feel differently about this thread.

Learn to accept that members have different and sometimes opposing views on topics. And that's fine.

So some members fantasize what they would do in a hypothetical situation as in this
thread.
I can't even think of it.

What's wrong with each of us having our individual views on things???

OP, hey r u here??? I'm really interested to know the reason your started this thread???

Yes, I'm here. I just answered your question to in my previous post. But I can expand. When I saw this question I said to myself "hey, hmmm, what would I do? Would I take this? What would this feel like?.."
It made me think, ask myself questions. I appreciate asking questions. And the worse thing for me is to shush up my question because it's "wrong" Like I said, I can understand you. But no my intentions was not to put anyone on a dangerous downhill slope, and I think many people can handle such discussion and benefit from it. Far from it. The purpose is to allow discussion to take place. It's ok to say if you'd be given an exemption what you'd do IMO. It's safe. It's alright. We are not preaching against Judaism. Perhaps even clarifying.. and allowing people to go further.. search deeper to find that meaning in being a yid.

That was my purpose.

And once again, If you don't think it's for you, by all means that's ok and I understand that.

amother

Aqua

Wed, Sep 27 2017, 10:51 am

I'm just really surprised at how wigged out some of these posters are getting at a mere thought exercise. That's the whole point of a thought exercise- to THINK about a potentially difficult dilemma. It wouldn't be much of a hypothetical to ask "someone hands you an adorable puppy. Do you cuddle it or strangle it?"

I think it honestly belies an insecurity more than an unshakeable faith to be that disturbed about this. As I posted above, there isn't much I'd do in those 3 months. Maybe try something I would never eat otherwise- and I most definitely don't struggle with kashrus, I've never eaten bacon nor do I have any particular desire to, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't give it try if, say, a bas kol came out and said "just for today Hashem is allowing it!" or if mann fell from the sky I might wish it to taste like a cheeseburger one time just to see what it's like.

Also, just because I'm perfectly happy to be frum and do not want to give it up, doesn't mean I love every mitzvah or every halacha. I don't exactly enjoy sticking white cloths up my privates twice a day for a week, but I do it because I believe that is what Hashem commanded of me and therefore I need to do it whether I like it or not. Keeping the Torah is the total package- I may generally like Taharas hamishpacha, but I don't like bedikas; I may generally like Shabbos, but think it's annoying that I can't flick a light switch or simply heat up food normally; I may like keeping kosher but find some of the details to be a bit neurotic. But I do it all, because that's what it means follow Hashem- you do what he asks of you. It's easy to do the parts we like, the real devotion comes from following the parts we don't like. And from being honest with yourself about where that line is for you rather than sticking your fingers in your ears and refusing to contemplate difficult questions.

zaq

Wed, Sep 27 2017, 11:18 am

OP IMO this was a very clever exercise for people brave enough or honest enough to carry it out. You didn’t need to state that it is a hypothetical scenario—that is obvious to anyone with a particle of understanding. I think it’s a good tool for people to clarify to themselves why they observe what they observe. Having done that, they can then, if they wish, figure out what portions of their faith they want to strengthen or what questions they want to ask their spiritual advisors.

InnerMe

Wed, Sep 27 2017, 11:30 am

zaq wrote:

Yes. Thank you Zaq for getting it, and appreciating my point.

amother

Ecru

Sat, Sep 30 2017, 2:49 pm

amother wrote:

Excuse me!!! You've got it all wrong in your presuming that I am scared to even imagine the thought of a "3 months vacation" b/c I might come to enjoy it!
What a misconception. Garbage. Yes, I will respond strongly, b/c you're presuming it's the reason MANY people are terrified to even entertain this thought.

Did you do a poll and ask MANY people this question???

Did they respond what you wrote above???

If not, how can you answer/presume for them and also use the word MANY?!

No! Your presumption is NOT the reason I cannot even imagine "3 months vacation" from Torah life.
Your presumption never entered my mind!

I cannot even entertain the thought of a "3 months vacation" b/c YES, it's scary, to me, to live life for one second just, without the Torah guiding me.

Perhaps your presumption of many, is subconsciously or consciously your personal feeling/fear about taking a "3 months vacation from Torah life?"

Chas v'Shalom.

grace413

Sun, Oct 01 2017, 1:10 am

amother wrote:

And then he's like, now imagine if your spouse told you he wants a vacation from you. And you get one from him. No marriage, no commitment, no relationship for a week or a month, and then everything is back to normal.

How would you react to such a proposal??

I don't think it's the same. Hashem is more like a parent than a spouse.

amother

Vermilion

Sun, Oct 01 2017, 1:31 am

I'm late to this game I see.
I don't harbor much interest in a three month exemption. Maybe because when I stopped believing in much of contemporary chareidi Judaism it felt like one.
And still I am observant. Just without the guilt. Jewish practice holds meaning for me without being forced to do any of it. Well some of it due to the society I live in.
But things I do in private are because I am an honest person and because they hold meaning for me spiritually.
I do get to try some things while on vacation that I wouldn't normally, such as dressing less modest and perhaps sometimes relaxing my kosher standards. My husband does those same things while still claiming to believe in all of orthodoxy. Anyway.
Zero interest in an exemption.
Maybe those who would like one or are afraid of one really are just seeking an exemption of the guilt so many live with. Since it is nearly impossible to never transgress my guess is most charedi people live with a certain amount of guilt.