Letting dc play with kids from broken homes

watergirl

Fri, Sep 29 2017, 7:45 am

Ok I stepped away from this thread because op hasnt come back. But re: the social worker. She is welcome to maintain or end any relationship she wants. The way she did it was nasty. To be dlcz about her telling me, 5 mins after I got my get, in the street, “sorry were done also” is a special kind of mean. Give your friend a hug and then digest the news and move away from the friendship like a person with feelings. Did I trust her before then? Meh. It was a super small community and we made friends with who there was. Ps this was over 12 years ago and BH she is still married.

33055

Fri, Sep 29 2017, 7:52 am

watergirl wrote:

That is horrid, weird, and inexcusable. Some people are just jerks.

Raisin

Fri, Sep 29 2017, 8:05 am

that divorce is contagious article is rubbish. It gave the example of a family where many members got divorced. Hmm, the same character traits (eg anger) that caused one siblings marriage to break down may be present in another sibling or parent.

Also, friends often are of similar ages and socioeconomic backgrounds. Many couples will get divorced at a similar time in life, eg after 10 years, after the kids leave home, whatever. Many couples also stay married because they can't afford to divorce, others find it easier to divorce since they have enough money. Why should an educated woman making a good income stay in a miserable or abusive marriage? She now has a choice. So if couple a decide after 10 years things aren't working, couple b may decide not because couple a did, but because they too can afford to and want to.

And sometimes contagion isn't bad. Lets say 2 friends are trapped in abusive marriages. Friend A finally breaks away and makes a happy life for herself and her kids. Friend B realises that she too can do the same. Her kids no longer have to live in a toxic enviroment.

JoyInTheMorning

Fri, Sep 29 2017, 8:52 am

Squishy wrote:

1. Let's just say it is a coincidence that one is more likely to divorce if in contact with a divorced person, then some might want to avoid the coincidence without being a wicked person. The LCSW should be exonerated.

Correlation between A and B isn't at all the same as coincidence. The point is that if there is a correlation between A and B but no causal relation, you cannot generally protect yourself against B by avoiding A.

Here is a simplistic example. There is a correlation between having friends who are mostly of childbearing age (A) and becoming pregnant (B). There's an obvious reason for that: it's because people are likely to have friends of similar age to oneself. So if you have friends mostly of childbearing age, you're likely of childbearing age, and therefore more likely to get pregnant than someone older whose friends are older. This does not mean that an effective means of birth control is ditching your young friends and replacing them with older friends.

amother

Aubergine

Fri, Sep 29 2017, 9:18 am

A list of kids your child shouldn't play with:

Child with low intelligence
Child with adhd
Child that lacks proper manners
An only child
A child from a very large family
A child with allergies
A child coming from different social circles
A child who lost a parent, or a sibling

Things you should not be concerned about:
Does the child have good middos
Is the child a bully
Does your kid get wild around this kid etc. .

This was not meant to be taken seriously. Please reconsider what really really counts. I am sad for your child.

Mommyg8

Fri, Sep 29 2017, 10:51 am

I just re-read the op's posts... I'm wondering if this is someone's idea of a joke, a very unfunny one.

Hopefully, 99% of people do not think this way, and will let their children play with these other children. Those who don't... their loss.

Look, there is such a thing as a bad influence, and if you feel that these kids have bad middos and will be a bad influence on your kids you should try to keep your kids away, but there are lots of kids with bad middos from parents with healthy marriages, unfortunately - why didn't you ask us about them?

What bothers me is the way the op put it - "I'm scared my kids will think divorce is ok" - hello? yes, they SHOULD think divorce is OK, when and if it is necessary. I know Catholics don't get divorced, but we're not Catholics, Judaism allows for divorce. Obviously, no-one wants to get divorced, it's always a last resort, but they should know that there is such a thing! I get the feeling that her kids are also told that the stork brings babies...

This whole line of reasoning is so bizarre, it is just way beyond my comprehension.

Last edited by Mommyg8 on Fri, Sep 29 2017, 12:06 pm; edited 1 time in total

33055

Fri, Sep 29 2017, 10:54 am

JoyInTheMorning wrote:

This study is a reputable study following 5000 people for decades. It provides invaluable social data. I can point to other flaws in it, but you're grasping. I am ok with this study. Harvard is ok. Brown is ok. Pew research is ok. They are ok with the conclusions drawn.

Now does being a doctor cause you to commit suicide at twice the rate or are people with suicidal tendencies drawn to the profession? There is no ethical way to test this just as there is no ethical way to have a control group to test the social contagion of divorces. We can only follow actual people.

Following actual people leads to the conclusions published. Common sense, other studies, and experience says there are social contagions. Children and adults learn what they live and are exposed to.

Perhaps you take the knowledge that if you have suicidal tendencies, you avoid professions with high suicide rates.

Perhaps if your marriage is in trouble and you want to save it, then avoid friends going through divorce. If your marriage is in trouble and you want to leave, gain courage, conviction, and support from those that left bad circumstances.

The social contagion here is not necessarily a bad one as others pointed out.

JoyInTheMorning

Fri, Sep 29 2017, 11:02 am

Squishy, I'm not grasping. I am a research scientist and one of the things I do is distinguish between correlation and causation.

Pew et al. don't argue for causation. They are stating a correlation. There are several possible reasons for a correlation between A and B. Sometimes it's because A causes B, sometimes because B causes A, sometimes because there's a common cause C of both A and B, and sometimes there is no known reason for the correlation at all. (This is what we'd think of as coincidence.) In only one of those situations -- when A actually causes B -- will avoiding A help prevent B. The Pew study does not state that A causes B.

In any case, as you agreed in an earlier posts, the causation, should it exist, is unlikely to travel through the children. The OP allowing her child to play with the child of divorced parents would not be admitting the parent into her close circle of friends. I can't even remember the names of kids who had playdates in my home, let alone their parents.

amother

Amber

Fri, Sep 29 2017, 11:35 am

I didn't read through this thread but directly to the OP...you sound very very motivated by fear. If you are scared and anxious all the time and need to live in a tiny little safe world, and you can't afford therapy or xanax, sure, only let your kids play with people who are exactly like you. Your loss. And there's no guessing what'll happen when they are ultimately exposed to different kinds of people one day.
But you should be more motivated by hope. If your child is exposed to love and family in all different shapes and sizes, she will grow to be level-headed about things that are different from her. She will have the courage to make the right decisions for her family one day, knowing that good things come in all different kinds of packages.
I personally find exposure to different situations is a great opportunity to learn about respecting people and being sensitive.

amother

Pink

Fri, Sep 29 2017, 11:42 am

Mommyg8 wrote:

I just re-read the op's posts... I'm wondering if this is someone's idea of a joke, a very unfunny one.

Hopefully, 99% of people do not think this way, and will let their children play with these other children. Those who don't... their loss. (They lose out on a mitzvah).

Look, there is such a thing as a bad influence, and if you feel that these kids have bad middos and will be a bad influence on your kids you should try to keep your kids away, but there are lots of kids with bad middos from parents with healthy marriages, unfortunately - why didn't you ask us about them?

What bothers me is the way the op put it - "I'm scared my kids will think divorce is ok" - hello? yes, they SHOULD think divorce is OK, when and if it is necessary. I know Catholics don't get divorced, but we're not Catholics, Judaism allows for divorce. Obviously, no-one wants to get divorced, it's always a last resort, but they should know that there is such a thing! I get the feeling that her kids are also told that the stork brings babies...

This whole line of reasoning is so bizarre, it is just way beyond my comprehension.

Thank you for your kind words in support of divorcees and their children. I just take issue with the bolded line (though I am sure you did not mean it in a bad way). In some cases it may be a particular mitzvah to invite a child from a divorced home, and this may be the main objective. However, in many cases, the other child is losing out on much more than a mitzvah by not being friends with the child from a divorced home. I am divorced and my daughter is extremely popular among her friends. They do not seem to think they are doing a mitzvah by being her friend. In fact, there are times when I have told her that it is a mitzvah for her to invite (or accept an invitation from) other girls who do not have as many friends and who may often be left out (though these girls come from two-parent homes).

33055

Fri, Sep 29 2017, 11:55 am

JoyInTheMorning wrote:

I agree with your explanation. As a research scientist, you should agree this is a well respected study.

Unlike you, I befriend the parents of my kids' friends. It is a major avenue of socialization especially for SAH and WAH moms.

In any event, I believe having knowledge isn't dangerous. OPs opening post came from a place of ignorance. Regrettably, there are many ignorant people in closed circles.

Mommyg8

Fri, Sep 29 2017, 12:05 pm

amother wrote:

Sorry, I was in a rush, and it came out wrong. I meant like being nice, etc. sometimes it WOULD be a nice thing to do, but as you pointed out, many children from divorced homes are popular and don't need anyone's pity.

To be honest, the reason I wrote it that way was because I grew up in a single parent home (not divorced), and yes, I thought that people who would invite either me or my siblings to their homes, chol hamoad trips, etc. were doing a very big mitzvah. Not necessarily that being friends with me was a mitzvah, but I am sure some of the parents of my friends extended themselves to invite me or my siblings just to be helpful (and I still appreciate this till today!). I'm sorry, I certainly didn't mean to offend anyone, but we all come to the table with our personal biases, and this was mine.

amother

Pink

Fri, Sep 29 2017, 12:48 pm

Mommyg8 wrote:

Thanks for clarifying. Certainly no offense taken. I just wanted to clarify for others. You make excellent points. Yes, for sure there are people who go out of their way to be kind to me and my children in various ways, and I appreciate it very much.

33055

Sun, Oct 01 2017, 10:40 am

watergirl wrote:

Op has come on here, posted just a few times, and hurt a lot of people. I think this thread should be shut down, seeing as she hasnt come back. Not even to apologize. I’m going to report my own post so a mod or yael will see it. Its obnoxious when a poster dumps a few hurtful posts and then doesnt come back.

OP was bullied into not coming back. She asked a question regarding a common practice in certain insular communities. Treating her with decency would have gone further to educate.