What do I do next? (long post) please read, updated

amother

Mistyrose

Thu, Sep 28 2017, 1:51 pm

Please don't go back. It's better to risk insulting your friends than risk a trauma to your daughter.

If your daughter is telling the truth, you don't want to risk her being in this situation again. When I was little, my neighbor's visiting teenage relative, who was around frequently tried to get me to agree to something. I said no and left. It wasn't a big deal, nothing happened. But you can bet I never ever wanted to go over to their house again when he was over. And I never did. I was perfectly happy to hang out with the neighbor's when he wasn't there though.

And even if your daughter is making it up, she wouldn't make it up for no reason, even if there is nothing s-xual in the reason (our daughter once made up something like this to get a boy in trouble because he had done something really mean to her, but there was nothing objectively wrong or s-xual with what he did, it was just really insulting) - but if she feels so upset by something about him or that he did, even if not s-xual or wrong, that she would tall you a story like this, then you still want to keep them away from each other.

So it's still irrelevant to your decision whether he or she is lying, and you can tell your friends that - whether or not something happened, your daughter feels too uncomfortable around their son for some reason, and so you need to respect her and prioritize her feelings.

amother

Lavender

Thu, Sep 28 2017, 3:47 pm

I had a long talk with my husband.
This is how the official "misunderstanding" played out (according to his mother):

"hey, do you want a treat? don't tell anyone (ie, don't tell the other kids I'm giving you a treat), oh and put your skirt down."

how much (out of 10) would you rate this as "possible it might have happened this way"?
(with dd misunderstanding the completely innocent conversation)

keep in mind, this is her uncle who she enjoys (enjoyed) playing with/talking to.

allthingsblue

Thu, Sep 28 2017, 3:50 pm

amother wrote:

I don't believe it.
8 yr olds don't misunderstand such things.
Additionally even his lie doesn't make sense; what 15 yr old uncle notices and tell his niece to pull her skirt down???

Why oh why did your in laws go the "disguised as a mentor" route?
I think that was a big mistake on their part. But what's done is done.

amother

Lavender

Thu, Sep 28 2017, 3:56 pm

allthingsblue wrote:

Do you mean they should have spoken about it right away?
This mentor says , that my bil opened up to him, shared with him struggles he's having in yeshiva, issues he's having with spending too much time on the computer/watching movies.
He says that if he had issues with wanting to touch someone inappropriately, he would have shared that with him as well.

(This is confirmation on their part as to why it's all a big mistake)

relish

Thu, Sep 28 2017, 4:04 pm

Weigh the pros and cons of both.

Weigh the pros of going back if she was saying the truth, and the cons of going back if she was saying the truth.

Weigh the pros of going back if she were lying, and the cons of going back if she were lying.

Bring to your husband, and ask him to add his pros and cons to the list. Make sure to include his family relationship with you and your daughters wellbeing, plus any other feelings of any people that may come into play. Make sure it's all there on paper.

Then discuss it with your husband. Think about your future and the consequences on staying true to your daughter. Think about the consequences of staying true to your husband's family.

Really really dissect this together with your husband. Once it's all on paper it will be easier to have clarity.

Then sleep on it and discuss again next week.

You can always cancel last minute. Part of the anxiety is the pressure of the decision.

Cookiegirl

Thu, Sep 28 2017, 4:06 pm

OP- it is your responsibility to keep your child safe- even in the supposedly "safe" environment of her grandparents' home. Please educate yourself (and your family) regarding this issue. Discuss it with a therapist that specializes in CSA. It is likely unrealistic for you to completely avoid your in-laws' home indefinitely, however, your obligation is to your child to support her and protect her based on what she has disclosed to you. Since this is such a delicate situation, professional guidance is warranted so that your daughter is secure in her knowledge of your belief in her disclosure as well as your ability to prevent future compromising situations with this uncle. As sad, and as scary as this is, and as much as you and your husband want this whole thing to be a misunderstanding, you MUST put that aside and deal with this based on the worst case scenario possibility.

As an aside, IMO, apologizing or brushing it under the rug is not appropriate, regardless of hurt feelings amongst the family members. You will need to take whatever heat that generates as the parent of a potential CSA victim...better you than her.

allthingsblue

Thu, Sep 28 2017, 4:09 pm

amother wrote:

No way. That's not true. I speak from experience. As a teen, I have told mentors certain things but there are certain things that are SO embarrassing that I didn't tell ANYONE and lied and denied when asked /confronted about it.
Struggling and watching movies (even p0rn) is more common and "acceptable " than taking advantage of an 8 yr girl. That would be why he wouldn't admit that.
Perhaps he thought he'd get help with his other struggles and thereby indirectly address the other issue.
But just because he didn't admit it doesn't mean he didn't do it.

tichellady

Thu, Sep 28 2017, 4:15 pm

allthingsblue wrote:

Agree with this. I have not shared things with my therapist that are much less embarrassing than molesting an 8 year old relative.

amother

Lavender

Thu, Sep 28 2017, 4:15 pm

Cookiegirl wrote:

I have no intention to brush anything under the rug, I have no desire for this to be a misunderstanding if it weren't. I only want to get to the truth.
Is that possible?

amother

Lavender

Thu, Sep 28 2017, 4:19 pm

relish wrote:

This is actually mostly what we did.

And the bottom line was, we really want to know the truth Sad

any pensieves around?

And the most important decision (for now) that we decided , was that we will not be going for sukkos. This gives us more time to think things through.

amother

Lavender

Thu, Sep 28 2017, 4:32 pm

Is there any point in reopening the conversation with my daughter, asking her (without context) what exactly bil said to her?

I feel like the thing I want the most is to get to the bottom of this, and I just don't see a way Sad

Of course, barring that, I will err on the side of siding with my daughter. There was never any question about that. But for whatever minuscule percentage possible this is all a mistake, I can't get the horrible feeling out that I am strongly wronging someone.

amother

cornflower

Thu, Sep 28 2017, 4:35 pm

amother wrote:

Can you be 100% certain that she won't perceive it as you doubting her story?

simba

Thu, Sep 28 2017, 4:36 pm

amother wrote:

I have no intention to brush anything under the rug, I have no desire for this to be a misunderstanding if it weren't. I only want to get to the truth.
Is that possible?

Earlier you said you trust your daughter 100%. What changed?
Is their a way she could have made up this story? Did she hear that something happened to someone else that as similar to this?
She was pretty explicit about what happened.

Go with your gut, the stakes are too high.
This doesn't mean you have to cut off the family or even this brother forever. You have to make sure your kids ar safe.

RebekahsMom

Thu, Sep 28 2017, 4:38 pm

His parents said they believed the story and looked into getting help? Maybe they have reason to believe he would do this.

At the very least, I could believe that he was curious just to see, not harm, her. But if it went that far he would take the behavior further next time. The fact that his story got more specific every time also worries me.

If for some reason you have to go back there, make it clear that your daughter is not to be alone with him. In the meantime, perhaps you should see a licensed professional (not your local Rav), and discuss the situation. Not that you want to bring it up with your daughter, but the professional can give you good advice.

BH5745

Thu, Sep 28 2017, 4:55 pm

Oy! What a horrible situation! Granted your first priority is your daughter's safety. However there is always the possibility that if you told others that your friends' son did something inappropriate -and that was either not true or things transpired differently than you heard- saying that could seriously impact the family. Have you consulted with a Rov on how to deal with this in a way that protects the innocents involved, as well as provides for the possibility that perhaps this might be a horrible misunderstanding?

MagentaYenta

Thu, Sep 28 2017, 5:06 pm

RebekahsMom wrote:

...
If for some reason you have to go back there, make it clear that your daughter is not to be alone with him. ...

This. I think it's very important that you make some choices about the males you are willing to trust your child with, be they 15 or 50.

amother

Salmon

Thu, Sep 28 2017, 5:06 pm

One very important point: You have to protect her EMOTIONALLY as much as physically. This means, seeing the abuser can be almost as triggering as actually being repeat molested. The first step in convincing your daughter that you believe her and will keep her safe is to make sure she never has to be in the same house as this boy. Children don't lie about these things, and an 8 year old understands what happened.

amother

Lavender

Thu, Sep 28 2017, 5:10 pm

simba wrote:

I still trust my daughter 100%. Her story is true. I still have her face in my mind, the way she looked when she hesitantly blurted out "[bil] said I shouldn't tell you".
The question that has been raised now, is it possible she misunderstood.

what happened now?

1) bil has a semi-possible innocent version of the story.
2) mil says she saw his face when he denied the story (this is the least convincing to me)
3) the mentor said what I wrote above, posters refuted that