Kids want to make Aliyah

FranticFrummie

Mon, Oct 02 2017, 8:30 am

IME, middle school is a horrible time for kids no matter where they live. The culture shock will be HUGE.

If you can get your kids relatively fluent in Ivrit before you go, then I say do it. If not, then you're going to have to wait.

My DD was SO gung-ho about making Aliyah. She was really excited, and I tried to prepare her for all the things that would be challenging. I didn't want her going with rose colored glasses.

It was still too much for her. She moved back to the US after a year and a half, to live with my non Jewish ex. She's completely OTD now, and swears she'll never set foot in Israel again.

My experience is no indicator of how your experience might be. I'm just one person, with one story. Still, I think it only fair to share what happened to us.

ProudMommie

Mon, Oct 02 2017, 8:41 am

It is interesting that your children want aliyah.. I would not dismiss it as wanting another toy... They may be telling you that they want more kedusha and to be closer to HKBK in the only place in the world where you can actually achieve that. E"Y is a place where we can reach higher and higher ... but of course, growth is not easy.

And.. E"Y is a deep golus ... it is very difficult. It is easier in chutz because there are non-Jews around.. but in E'Y, for the most part, we are with our own and it hurts more from your own...The land is amazing and there is so much kedusha but there are difficult dynamics that need to be worked out with each other... I am definitely in this process now.. but I do know though I have been here only 3.5 years that in E"Y there is no faking it... when you are here, you have to become yourself and grow. You have to be the best you possible. It is a kind of force here, the air.. you have to work things out -- everything-- about who you are and what you are about. I don't know how to explain it.. It is just you and Hshem... and Hashem wants us to be happy. it is not ok for Him for you to be just so so.. He wants you to be fantastic.. Smile

Sounds great right? Yes, it is .. but it is hard too.

Stil, ..as hard as E'Y is here, it is also a place that a Jew can really feel a certain connection to his or her neshama and... even feel a real happiness...

There is much to say about it..

FranticFrummie

Mon, Oct 02 2017, 8:56 am

ProudMommie wrote:

WOW! You summed it up exactly. You put into words something that I always felt, but could never articulate.

DD fell in with a group of girls who were dissatisfied with their lives. The swore, took their skirts off outside the house, made fun of their rav, and a million other things. When Jews fall, they take others with them. What group you attach yourselves to has a LOT of influence on how you will behave in the future. You're always either going up, or going down. There is no in between.

(BTW, I am not blaming the other girls. Everyone makes choices in their lives, and has personal responsibility.)

rivkam

Mon, Oct 02 2017, 9:12 am

It can work but I think it's definitely a risk and I know too many people who made aliyah when their kids were still in school and they have at least one kid OTD.

I kind of think that the best time to do it is before your oldest starts elementary school or after the last one graduates high school. It's such a massive adjustment and parnassah can be so hard.

Israel is an amazing place but it so different for america. Maybe try and speak to families who have done it but also take into account your children's personalities. Are they adaptable? Are they good at languages? Are they familiar with different cultures?

ProudMommie

Mon, Oct 02 2017, 9:13 am

FranticFrummie wrote:

Thanks:) I have just struggled through it SO much to understand what Hshem wants from me here and I think that I have more clarity now. It is a hard realization but ultimately this growth and of course the tears that come with it... is for our good. There is no way that I could have grown this much in chul, but of course I was not such a tzadekes to choose this path consciously lol. I am glad I am here and hope to stay..but I did not know anything ab E"Y before I made aliyah.

What you say about your dd is so difficult to hear.. In any place where is so much potential for our growth, like here.., there is great potential for us to fall as well.. Bezras H she will be back...

LovesHashem

Mon, Oct 02 2017, 10:02 am

rivkam wrote:

Although that's true I don't think that's a reason to not make aliyah. Many teens in the USA go OTD. I know a family that made aliyah with 14 kids ranging from 2 years old to 21. None have gone OTD and they all LOVE it here. It really depends on the parents' attitude, marriage, how the keep the family together, how they are on top of the kids, make sure they adjust, move to the right place, make sure kids find right friends, etc.

Even with all that, people go OTD. I mean we can't understand the reasons things happen. But I'm just saying, people will scare you, and there is basis, but many people DON'T go OTD.

FanaticFrummie, in your case perhaps your daughter was already exposed to certain ideals and ideas through you ex, and found that those girls understood that. (This is a possibility). I'm sorry about her, and it's also possible you did everything and she went OTD. It's also possible she would of gone OTD in the USA and connected to those types fo girls there too. We don't know.

I'll tell you one thing, making aliyah comes with sacrifices. They say Eretz Yisroel only comes with hardships (to get there). In the begining it's hard. There were nights we didn't have food, gas, or electricty. There were schools that kicked me and my siblings out, rejected us. There was therapists, pain, frustration. Sometimes we didn't know where we were going to live, or when my parents would get a job...but we always knew Hashem would take care of us. We asked Daas Torah before coming, and we knew this is where he wanted us to be.

Other sacrafices, my father had to switch to black and white, as we were in between yeshivish and chareidi. We had to pick, so my parents chose chareidi. Suddenly we didn't go to movies anymore, play sports, we starting wearing tights, no nail polish, etc. There will be adjustments. Some people end up moving and they lower their observance, it's very sad to see. Anyways, ask Daas Torah

amother

Firebrick

Mon, Oct 02 2017, 10:07 am

Most of the horror stories you hear about teens and aliyah are when the teens didn't really want it and it was just another decision made by parents without any input and they feel uprooted and a loss of control of their lives. If you've been raising your kids with the mentality that Israel is where we're meant to be and that it's our true home etc and they picked up on that and want that for themselves too- like so much that if you don't do it, they'll hop on that plane as soon as they graduate- then it's likely to be just fine. That said, definitely talk with your kids about what they think aliyah will be like. Do they truly feel it in their heart and soul? Or do they have a vation/Yom HaAtzmaut vision of life in Israel? That's a very important distinction. It's the difference between love and infatuation. If it's the latter, then aliyah might not be such a good idea. People in Israel live their day to day lives, so living there is not going to be a constant spiritual high and constant fun tiyulim and one big kumsitz. It's going to be, well, life. A very special life, a life dh and I daven every day we should one day have the zechut to have. But it's still regular day life where kids go to school, parents go to work/supermarket/errands and stuff needs to get done.

mandksima

Mon, Oct 02 2017, 10:12 am

I am interested in knowing what attracts the kids to EY at this point? Did they recently visit?

Children are often the catalysts for families becoming more religious, moving to different cities, etc.. It is not far-fetched to think they might actually have something there. If it is a spiritual yearning, please don't ignore that. Sometimes children can see a better clarity of the world's global picture than adults can who are just running through a rat race and don't even look or can't figure out a different path.

I don't think it is long before everyone is gathered to EY. You can't really look at the world now and think otherwise as a Torah Jew. I don't see reasons to stay and hope everything is going to stay normal in the US. Why not make aliyah? Life isn't easy. Aliyah may not be easy. Staying might not be easy if they are constantly dreaming of a different future. Why do you think they have the urge as well as you unless you are supposed to come? You have what many can only hope to attain and get credit for - wanting to live in EY. Don't throw that away.

I know there are unsuccessful stories. Kids have a hard time in the US too even when the world is not turning upside down. Who's to say they won't have future problems if they remain where they are? The benefits of EY outweigh the possible difficulties anytime. Speak to a rav who is on top of things in the world to get aitza from regarding this but above everything else, talk to Hashem to figure it out and daven for clarity.

FranticFrummie

Mon, Oct 02 2017, 10:22 am

BTW, I by no means want to discourage anyone from making Aliyah! I am the most idealistic, Zionist person I know. I love every minute here, and I don't regret coming.

Yes, there is a very real chance that DD would go OTD no matter where we lived, even if we were on a Mars colony. I accept that. As a matter of fact, one of the main reasons we moved here was because she was not getting proper chinuch opportunities in our old community, and I knew she was at a tipping point already.

Looking back, my best advice would be to start getting your kids used to Ivrit, and to try to use it every day around the house. Make word games out of it, give them ice cream if they ask for "glidah", whatever it takes.

For DD, the social isolation, and inability to understand her teachers is what pushed her over the edge. DD would come home in tears, because she was so bored in class. The teachers told her to just "sit there and it will soak in". She said to me "Mama, I can't take it anymore. I want to LEARN!"

She couldn't make friends in the parks or neighborhood, because we were not in an Anglo bubble. The friends she made at school were all Olim who were equally frustrated, and that frustration fed on itself and grew.

If your kids really, REALLY want to make Aliyah, don't discourage them. Tell them they need to prove how committed they are by learning Ivrit, and you won't be sorry.

amother

Pearl

Mon, Oct 02 2017, 1:02 pm

LovesHashem wrote:

I'll tell you one thing, making aliyah comes with sacrifices. They say Eretz Yisroel only comes with hardships (to get there). In the begining it's hard. There were nights we didn't have food, gas, or electricty. There were schools that kicked me and my siblings out, rejected us. There was therapists, pain, frustration. Sometimes we didn't know where we were going to live, or when my parents would get a job...but we always knew Hashem would take care of us. We asked Daas Torah before coming, and we knew this is where he wanted us to be.

Other sacrafices, my father had to switch to black and white, as we were in between yeshivish and chareidi. We had to pick, so my parents chose chareidi. Suddenly we didn't go to movies anymore, play sports, we starting wearing tights, no nail polish, etc. There will be adjustments. Some people end up moving and they lower their observance, it's very sad to see. Anyways, ask Daas Torah

Not everyone wants to have to renounce things that are totally FINE just for social reasons.
Not everyone wants or can handle what you describe either.

LovesHashem

Mon, Oct 02 2017, 1:37 pm

amother wrote:

Not everyone wants to have to renounce things that are totally FINE just for social reasons.
Not everyone wants or can handle what you describe either.

1. I've lived here for too long. It's not just social reasons. Perhaps we did it originally for that, but it's hard to explain the way of life until you have expirienced it.

2. I never said OP or ANYONE would have to go thorugh what we went through. Eretz Yisroel is only attained through nisyonos It's not something I made up, I'm almost positive it's a POSUK in TANACH. I'm not sure what OP's nisyonos will be, but I am just sharing a sample of mine. I have yet to meet someone who came here and did not go through hard nisyonos. Of course if you do it with dass torah, stick here, you will atain the kedusha and bezrat hashem life will be good. But I'm not going to sugarcoat this. This idea is from tanach, and OP needs to know it WILL be hard. You may not have the exact nisyonos I had but there IS nisyonos.

Not everyone I knew had nisyonos in money like I described. There's all types....but it's not easy. We came to Israel with 2000 dollars and monthly stipends from nefesh binefesh. No job, no house, no furniture.

Another friend of mine who had many kids sold their silver leichter, and also came here with a few thousand dollars.

amother

Lemon

Mon, Oct 02 2017, 1:59 pm

LovesHashem wrote:

Eretz Yisroel is only attained through nisyonos[/b] It's not something I made up, I'm almost positive it's a POSUK in TANACH.

It is in the gemara, Brachos 5a.

So many people are willing to struggle for things they consider valuable, but expect aliyah to be handed to them on a silver platter. It doesn't work that way. We come to Israel bedech hateva and we have to deal with real life. It's not always easy, but the best things rarely are.

water_bear88

Mon, Oct 02 2017, 2:17 pm

I've seen several of these cases where one or more kids went OTD. Frankly, in all the ones I can think of, there was major tension over either a parent getting debilitatingly or terminally ill within a few years after making aliyah, lo aleinu, or parents pushing social norms too hard and putting kids into inappropriate schools for those specific children.

I wouldn't do it with a middle schooler unless (a)you and your husband are on solid ground emotionally and physically, at least as best as you know now and (b) you really really research schools that are used to dealing with Anglo olim and fit your kids religiously.

As great as the Galil and the Negev are, and I'd never discourage adult olim from going there, I don't think they have the resources for dealing with Anglos the way some schools in Yerushalayim, RBS, Gush Etzion, and one or two other places in the Y-m area do.

On the religious question, I've also seen kids (girls) who were pushed to cover more than they were used to suddenly to meet school standards, and were old enough to object, and parents made it more of a struggle than it should have been. You can't pick the more right-wing option with kids that age and expect it to work.