Public school in brooklyn

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amother

Blush

Tue, Oct 03 2017, 8:37 am

After long deliberation and struggle, I'm really thinking that I will have to send my kids to public school. I just can't afford these tuitions anymore. Yes, they give me a break but it's still too much for me. We are already in the cheapest schools so please don't tell me to switch yeshivas because it's not like we were in Yeshiva of Flatbush to begin with. I'm already on Nechomas Yisroel which does help a bit, but is a drop in the bucket when considering the amounts they want monthly from me. Please tell me (especially if you are a teacher in PS) how to best prepare my kids for the change both socially and academically. I'm thinking they will probably be behind academically. Socially my kids are pretty open, so I'm hoping that they will be OK there. Obviously there will be some glitches along the way.........

Is there anyone else here that has made the switch? Please share your experiences. Both good and bad.
TIA

TwinsMommy

Tue, Oct 03 2017, 8:44 am

My kids are in public. Well technically one kid got bumped from public to a special ed placement but it's not Jewish. It's helpful to let teachers know that when there will be a popcorn or pizza or whatever party to let you know in advance and you can send kosher whatever it is. Socially our issue is not going to the Friday night stuff but there are other kids who don't. Hatzlacha!

icebreaker

Tue, Oct 03 2017, 9:05 am

My kids have always been in public school so I don't have any advice about how to adjust them from a frum school to public. See if there's a counselor at the school who may be able to help. My kids have had more positive than negative experiences. The only thing my son gets annoyed with is when the other boys ask to try on his kippah lol.

I send my kids to school with a kosher lunch and to not eat any food from the school or others. My children's school offers s*x education but parents can opt their kids out of it. But that doesn't mean the other children won't talk about s*x or what they read or saw on tv or whatever. So I think that may be the biggest adjustment. I'm pretty open with my kids so if they heard something and came home with questions, I answered as age appropriately as possible. But some of the things they've heard shock

But overall, we've done fine in our public school and saved tons of money (I know money isn't the end-all, but saving as much as possible certainly helps, especially in NYC). Keep the lines of communication open. Your kids may get upset that they can't do things their friends do because of Shabbos or Yom Tov. I would also alert the school that you are a frum family and so there will be days your kids are not in school to observe Jewish holidays. There are a lot of Jewish kids and teachers in the NYC public school system so I'm sure it wouldn't be an issue and your kids might have to just make up any missed work.

amother

Blush

Tue, Oct 03 2017, 11:57 am

thank you so far for the responses. I appreciate it and it's making me feel better.
Another question, did your kids ever get picked on for being Jewish or anything along those lines? I would guess in NYC there is a lot of tolerance, but still.......
My oldest who was in PS several years ago in NJ at the time did get bullied a lot bc he's Jewish.

TIA

amother

Green

Tue, Oct 03 2017, 1:08 pm

public schools vary tremendously by district. There are some I would send to in a heartbeat, and others I would avoid at all costs.

Honestly, if I was certain I was moving my kids to public school permanently, I'd get the heck out of NY.

Shoshana37

Tue, Oct 03 2017, 2:19 pm

I considered sending my kids to public school however we live in Brooklyn and I really think public schools in Brooklyn are way different then out of state. So we end up not switching. Very sad that Yeshiva's charging arm and leg these days. I was behind on mortgage this month because of tuitions:-(((

Mevater

Tue, Oct 03 2017, 2:34 pm

I dont get how mega-mansions are being built all over certain areas of NYC and NYS and people are buying summer homes and winter homes and trekking on vacations all the time, and the numbers of people like that arent that few, and there are still NYC parents who cant get money from organizations to cover jewish schools tuition, if parents cant afford it.

amother

Bisque

Tue, Oct 03 2017, 2:42 pm

I know I didn't go in Brooklyn, but I went to a public school, a very high rated one at that, for a semester for getting ahead. I was with the motivated, high grade kids. This was 9th grade. All they talked about was weekends with sx and pizza. They of course asked me to it also. The fact that I was shomer negiah was a challenge to 2 boys and I didn't want to tattle as the new kid. I won't send my kids there. It wasn't bad at all, the school was great. But it was violating. I won't send my kids to ps now. Do any of your kids have these experiences? How do you and they deal with it? Is it different in New York?

amother

Lime

Tue, Oct 03 2017, 2:42 pm

Mevater wrote:

I don't think that people with summer homes are willing to give them up to pay for other tuition.

Mevater

Tue, Oct 03 2017, 3:16 pm

amother wrote:

I don't think that people with summer homes are willing to give them up to pay for other tuition.

If theres an equal amount of mega mansions as families that cant afford tuition, why not adopt a family? Its probably way cheaper than one vacation and certainly way cheaper than one lavish wedding.

This is NUTS!

amother

Lime

Tue, Oct 03 2017, 3:20 pm

Mevater wrote:

I understand your point but realistically unless you're willing to fund others tuition I don't see how you can decide this for others. Who says they want to give up a vacation after working so hard or how they should make their kids weddings?

amother

Floralwhite

Tue, Oct 03 2017, 3:32 pm

I don't live in the US. I live in a small Jewish community and send my little kids to the local Jewish (state funded so its free) school. Since its a very small Jewish community there are not enough Jewish kids so about half the kids in the school are not Jewish at all. Most of the Jewish kids are not frum. My kids are usually the only kids in the class keeping shabbos, and kosher, and not doing lots of other stuff the other kids do.

It's totally fine and they are pretty happy when they are younger, but as they get older and hit middle school it gets really tough socially. Thats when we send them away to frum schools in other cities.

I assume you are more M.O so things like TV, movies, and mixed swimming is not an issue for you. We don't go to movies for example which is a popular birthday party choice here.

Mevater

Tue, Oct 03 2017, 3:41 pm

amother wrote:

I cant fathom how anyone can make one of those $100,000+ weddings, so that tongues in the community can wag about the most elegant wedding lately, that people forget about by the time they go to the next elegant wedding!!!!... these are people who clearly are in the very upper percentile income level, and walk their child down the aisle hoping and praying to G-d that the couple have Mazel, while spending $100,000+ on one night, while some of that money could have saved a child from going to public school. Im not recommending that they make a cheap wedding, just cut enough corners to save a child from going to public school.

amother

Olive

Tue, Oct 03 2017, 4:05 pm

amother wrote:

I also went to public school, not in Brooklyn.

90% of my graduating class went to a 2 or 4 year college, with the remaining 10% going into the military. Maybe one person got married straight out of college, and another became an air traffic controller, but I think that might have been military as well.

While I'm sure there were a number of people who were secksually active in high school -- and we even had a couple of pregnant girls at graduation -- none of my friends were secksually active. And while we did enjoy pizza (who doesn't), we also enjoyed discussing sports, music, literature and politics.

And while I of course don't have intimate (if you'll excuse the word) knowledge of what my public school nieces and nephews, and friends' kids, do or say, they seem to be well-versed in things other than sax and drugs and rock n roll. Like anything else, its the friends that you choose.

I hate all of this fear-mongering about those evil public school kids who will pull all our kids into lives of debauchery. Its just not true. Most public school kids are great. Some aren't. Hopefully our kids will choose their friends wisely, whether they are in public school or yeshiva.

There are plenty of other reasons that I choose to send my kids to yeshiva. Chief among them the fact that I want them to have a solid education in limudei kodesh, and that I don't want to deal with Shabbat activity issues.

amother

Black

Tue, Oct 03 2017, 4:33 pm

It's been a while since I've lived in NY (I did my student teaching there about 10 years ago), but as I recall, the NYC public school district has some element of choice, depending on the age of the students. If you're okay with your children going to school in a different neighborhood, they can apply to go to any number of small schools with a special focus. There are some very good public schools in the NYC DOE system, but just going to your neighborhood school (especially for middle/high school) might not be the best choice.
Here's more info on that:
http://www.wnyc.org/schoolbook.....ment/
http://schools.nyc.gov/Choices.....t.htm
Applications for this year are closed, but keep that in mind for next year.

I went to very good public schools and very much enjoyed those years, but I'm a BT, so my experience was a little different. In my experience, teachers and schools can be very accommodating about religious circumstances as long as you provide them with advance notice and enough information.

amother

Cobalt

Tue, Oct 03 2017, 5:57 pm

Ok... I work in a NYC public school. While I have had a few Jewish children from kosher homes come through our doors, usually the students come for a little and then leave to a yeshiva of some sort.
The issue is that I have seen these children eating not kosher. It breaks my heart, but kids are kids and there are 20+ birthday parties a year and class parties and carnivals etc. As much as the teachers are told, I don't feel they "get" kosher. They get no pork or no beef but the tiny kosher symbol is really hard for them and the little ones often cave in.
We also have a December concert where kids perform and where 95% of the songs are about Xmas. Some kids sit out but the kids practice daily for like 3 weeks for a whole period.
While it's great that it's free, it's so hard for religious kids.

Oh and I went to public school for 2nd and 3rd grade as there was no religious school where I lived at the time...

Shoshana37

Tue, Oct 03 2017, 6:07 pm

I personally know a lot of people who have built mansions driving 2 fancy cars, go to at least 2 vacations per year and get government help and break in tuitions
So yes it breaks my heart that I don't qualify to get any breaks and barely making through and I really am trying to keep my kids in yeshiva as long as possible even if I'm late with mortgage payments.

amother

Gray

Tue, Oct 03 2017, 6:24 pm

My children are in NJ public school (near a large orthodox community). Every holiday concert has 1 song in Hebrew, a x-mas song, and a few random or winter songs. Mostly non-Jewish kids. I say go public, and change after 8th grade if necessary. You’ll save thousands.

My kids (middle school) are learning history, doing pre-algebra, and have to read nightly (book of their choice), as well as write a full page several times a week about their reading. Tonight, my son wrote a full-page news article about the book he’s reading (a column each of facts and a character’s opinion). They study current events and discuss them.

Yours may start our behind, but they should have no trouble catching up. Prepare your son for a few questions kids might ask “why do you wear that hat thing? Do you really get 8 days of presents? Can you say something in Hebrew? Why can’t you play on saturdays?”

When they talk about sx education, it’s really health/ family life. A 6th grader learns healthy meal planning, fitness goals, family dynamics, how decisions affect your health, communication/ conflict resolution, hygiene, some discussions of changes (development, gaining hair, girls cycles, boys growth, usually done with genders separated). Discussions about sx are not about physical relations. They are about how decisions you make affect you and those around you, such as how financial security can affect your lifestyle and raising a child. Obviously in high school you get the details.

A major concern is keeping kosher. My kids have always been in classes with allergies, and all food must be pre-packaged (no home baked goods). It helps a lot.

Good luck on your decision.

amother

Denim

Tue, Oct 03 2017, 7:07 pm

Alright, time to chime in with my opinion...

As someone raised in the secular world and having gone through public school until I left at the end of 11th grade, I can tell you that no savings in the world are worth putting a Jewish child into a public school -- especially one that is already frum.

I've been in multiple public schools due to family relocation, and in each and every one I have seen such depravity. I've had great teachers and a good education, but the nature of public school is to be very open and permissible to a fault.

In public school, it is NORMAL for children as young as 7 to have "boyfriends" and "girlfriends" and experiment with other-gender physical contact. By the age of 12 or 13, many children have already "done it." And yes, s-x ed IS about teaching exactly how the reproductive organs work, down to the very act of having children put condoms on bananas. Don't kid yourself by pretending that the secular world shelters children from a young age.
For even greater s-x ed, just walk the back hallways of any highschool. There you'll get a full education!

Nowadays, it's going to get even worse, with schools being required to promote same-gender relations as normal and accepted.

Now let's talk cruelty:
In public school, you have children coming many various backgrounds, often times gang backgrounds, in which they've learned that being the roughest, toughest is the way to succeed. Even the "better" kids often have a clic-ish mentality that looks down upon anyone not uber pretty, muscular or rich. Children have no problem to verbally abuse other kids on a daily basis. Of course, there are good kids too, but those are usually the ones that are being abused!

Ever heard of phasing? Just to give you an idea of what "accepted" mentality is the minds of many American teenagers. (This applies specifically to college, but teens know about this as well, and many have tried it.) In order to become part of the "in-crowd", wanna-bes have to go through phasing, which can be anything from having their heads submerged in a bucket of feces to eating live cochroaches. Yeah. These are the kids you might be sending your precious neshama to school with.

Not only that, but do you really expect a young Jewish child to NOT develop crushes on girls/boys they are in class with, regardless of religious affiliation? Taking a child out of a yeshiva to put them into public school to save money sends the child the message that Yiddishkeit is worth a certain price. Who said he can't put his own price on Yiddishkeit as well?
A pretty blonde girl that just happens to be Catholic... Well, you know, the price of love overcomes all...

My dear, daven, daven your heart out. Go knocking on doors and start collecting. Sell your jewelry. Get down on your knees and grovel with the administration, but don't take your kid out of yeshiva.

Take it from someone who knows.

And btw, the reason I left to get my GED at age 14 was due to the utter depravity I witnessed in public school. I didn't want to be in the environment anymore. And I wasn't yet religious.

amother

Ivory

Tue, Oct 03 2017, 8:11 pm

I am a public school graduate and have kids in public now (Jewish school isn't equipped to deal with their needs). I have never seen that. My experience is much more like the previous amother. Because of allergies, food rules are much more respected now. Shabbat activities are not yet an issue, I think that would be much more significant in middle and high school. The secular curriculum is good, and they do not teach explicit s*x education in elementary school. I think they have learned a couple of Xmas songs, the more secular ones (think Jingle Bells, not O Holy Night) Halloween is a bigger deal than x-mas honestly since from a young child's point of view it's just about getting dressed up and asking for candy.

I have never seen 2nd graders having boyfriends. And statistically the average American teenager waits till they are nearly 17 ro have relations now, so no, not many 12 year olds are doing it.

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