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How do people live on income that qualifies for benefits?
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amother
Cerise


 

Post Tue, Oct 03 2017, 3:53 pm
I have been trying to understand this for a long time. Maybe someone can explain it to me. Supposedly there are families in Brooklyn who survive because they get benefits and pay little tuition because of tuition discounts for those in chinuch. I have seen people post on here that "they get benefits and tuition discount" as if that explains how certain families are making it.

But it seems to me that the income necessary to qualify for benefits is so low that it is not possible to support a family on that amount, even with the benefits and minimal tuition. How do people do it?

For example, according to income eligibility guidelines I found on NYS website, a family of 5 must earn a max of $37,416 before taxes to qualify for SNAP (food stamps) and the maximum allotment per month for a family that size is $760/month, which comes to approx 9K/year. Let's say this family has 2 boys and 1 girl and the father is a rebbe in the school the boys attend and they get free tuition (though it doesn't necessarily always work out like that), and that they get a generous scholarship for their girl and pay only 2K for her. And let's say they qualify for Medicaid and pay nothing for health insurance or copays (though I think Medicaid eligibility is even lower income).

Their income is about 37.5K (to qualify for SNAP) + 9K SNAP benefit = 46.5K.
Minus 2K tuition and let's say 5K taxes = 39.5K.

How are they supporting a family of 5 on less than 40K in Brooklyn where rent will be minimally 2K, probably more, even with that number being after tuition and taxes?
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mha3484




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Oct 03 2017, 4:02 pm
We have lived on that income and it was extremely hard. I would really like to know the answer too. The only difference is that I don't live in Brooklyn but I don't live in the cheapest of cheap places either.
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amother
Teal


 

Post Tue, Oct 03 2017, 4:08 pm
amother wrote:
I have been trying to understand this for a long time. Maybe someone can explain it to me. Supposedly there are families in Brooklyn who survive because they get benefits and pay little tuition because of tuition discounts for those in chinuch. I have seen people post on here that "they get benefits and tuition discount" as if that explains how certain families are making it.

But it seems to me that the income necessary to qualify for benefits is so low that it is not possible to support a family on that amount, even with the benefits and minimal tuition. How do people do it?

For example, according to income eligibility guidelines I found on NYS website, a family of 5 must earn a max of $37,416 before taxes to qualify for SNAP (food stamps) and the maximum allotment per month for a family that size is $760/month, which comes to approx 9K/year. Let's say this family has 2 boys and 1 girl and the father is a rebbe in the school the boys attend and they get free tuition (though it doesn't necessarily always work out like that), and that they get a generous scholarship for their girl and pay only 2K for her. And let's say they qualify for Medicaid and pay nothing for health insurance or copays (though I think Medicaid eligibility is even lower income).

Their income is about 37.5K (to qualify for SNAP) + 9K SNAP benefit = 46.5K.
Minus 2K tuition and let's say 5K taxes = 39.5K.

How are they supporting a family of 5 on less than 40K in Brooklyn where rent will be minimally 2K, probably more, even with that number being after tuition and taxes?

The ones I know that manage this way also have section 8 and vouchers and receive shabbos packages and they must live very frugally buy taking the new shabbos clothes given out before pesach and hand me downs and other handouts.
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Reality




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Oct 03 2017, 4:11 pm
I Have also. It is living in survival mode. I would post more details but I have a feeling you are posting this because you believe all people in brooklyn are cheaters and liars and are not really eligible. If you are also struggling and need to know this information for practical reasons I would love to help.
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Reality




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Oct 03 2017, 4:15 pm
Oops I meant to post this annon. Oh well. This was me many years ago and it was the most degrading time. For someone to try to figure things out like you did in your lengthy op really made my stomach turn. You should never know from such struggles!
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mommy3b2c




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Oct 03 2017, 4:21 pm
amother wrote:
I have been trying to understand this for a long time. Maybe someone can explain it to me. Supposedly there are families in Brooklyn who survive because they get benefits and pay little tuition because of tuition discounts for those in chinuch. I have seen people post on here that "they get benefits and tuition discount" as if that explains how certain families are making it.

But it seems to me that the income necessary to qualify for benefits is so low that it is not possible to support a family on that amount, even with the benefits and minimal tuition. How do people do it?

For example, according to income eligibility guidelines I found on NYS website, a family of 5 must earn a max of $37,416 before taxes to qualify for SNAP (food stamps) and the maximum allotment per month for a family that size is $760/month, which comes to approx 9K/year. Let's say this family has 2 boys and 1 girl and the father is a rebbe in the school the boys attend and they get free tuition (though it doesn't necessarily always work out like that), and that they get a generous scholarship for their girl and pay only 2K for her. And let's say they qualify for Medicaid and pay nothing for health insurance or copays (though I think Medicaid eligibility is even lower income).

Their income is about 37.5K (to qualify for SNAP) + 9K SNAP benefit = 46.5K.
Minus 2K tuition and let's say 5K taxes = 39.5K.

How are they supporting a family of 5 on less than 40K in Brooklyn where rent will be minimally 2K, probably more, even with that number being after tuition and taxes?


I wonder the same thing. Which is why when people start ranting about the rebbis having it better because blah, blah, blah..... I laugh. You are Making so little anyway, that it's ridiculous. As an aside, it easier to qualify for Medicaid then for food stamps.
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amother
Cerise


 

Post Tue, Oct 03 2017, 4:27 pm
Reality wrote:
I Have also. It is living in survival mode. I would post more details but I have a feeling you are posting this because you believe all people in brooklyn are cheaters and liars and are not really eligible. If you are also struggling and need to know this information for practical reasons I would love to help.


I'm so sorry that I hurt you with my post. I should have been more clear so as not to be misunderstood. Actually, I do not believe that people are liars or cheaters. In fact I hesitated to post because I was afraid people would respond by saying that people manage like that because they are cheating. I can't believe that that is the only explanation (or that that explanation is even true at all).

I am rather asking because:
A) I am a single mother struggling to make ends meet (I posted on the family of 6 in Flatbush thread but didn't want to hijack it and anyway had this question long before that thread) and I do not qualify for any benefits except child health plus for my kids which I pay into. I am not managing on my income without benefits, and I also don't know how I would manage on an income that would qualify me for benefits, even with the benefits. I thought maybe others know something that I don't since I must be missing something here.

B) I can't stand reading posts where people make it as if those in chinuch who get "benefiits and tuition discounts" are living the good life. I was trying to point out (though I guess I didn't do a very good job) that those who qualify for benefits must still be struggling mightily if they make little enough to qualify.
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amother
Cerise


 

Post Tue, Oct 03 2017, 4:31 pm
Reality wrote:
Oops I meant to post this annon. Oh well. This was me many years ago and it was the most degrading time. For someone to try to figure things out like you did in your lengthy op really made my stomach turn. You should never know from such struggles!


Again, so sorry that my post hurt you and that I wasn't more clear. Unfortunately, I have (and still do) known from these struggles and worse and am just trying to make sense of it for that reason.
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amother
Burlywood


 

Post Tue, Oct 03 2017, 4:38 pm
1. many people get free, or almost free rent through section 8.
some even own houses this way. (they somehow raise the downpayment - usually by borrowing from family. a non-family member buys the house in his/her name, applies to house section 8, however that works, I really don' t know the details. then family applies to rent from the buyer, and the section 8 "rent" actually pays off the mortgage. then at some point later they do a transfer of deed.

2. people are getting huge amounts of food stamp money.

3. massive tuition discounts. not only kids of teachers. some schools are like the "public schools" of jewish education. especially if you know who to talk to. I know someone paying about $10k combined yearly for her entire family of 6.

4. You forgot the biggest one - WORKING OFF THE BOOKS! People literally own businesses in other people's names, so on paper they are making nothing which makes them eligible for just about everything.

Even with all this, I honestly don't understand how people make it.

Having said that, the people I know who do these things are constantly stressed and WISH WISH WISH they had done things differently. At this point, with 6, 7, 8, 10 kids ranging from adult to early elementary, they feel too far in to get out. but they are doing their best to make sure their kids won't repeat. It doesn't make what they're doing right in my eyes, but when you know people, things start to look a little different.
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amother
Blush


 

Post Tue, Oct 03 2017, 4:39 pm
Credit card debt
Chesed/tzedaka
Section 8, if you're very very lucky. If you're not, you stay in the same small apartment waaaay after you outgrow it.

I would venture to say that most families on benefits are struggling, not living the good life.
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Reality




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Oct 03 2017, 4:40 pm
I am sorry I jumped to conclusions! When I was in that situation my kids were young. Most were not in school yet so it was easier to get by. Plus we had wic. We also were not eligible for the full amount. We received a little less than $400 a month in snap. I used to make it a game. Try to spend less than $100 a month on food.

But it was very hard. No matter how frugal we were we had credit card debt. We only got out of it with Hashems help because my husband shifted the focus of his business and I trained for a better paying job.

I wish you much hatzlacha! Again I am so sorry for being harsh before!
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amother
Purple


 

Post Tue, Oct 03 2017, 4:42 pm
The way a lot of Rebbeim live is that their income is considered parsonage which makes it that lot of their income isnt counted for Medicaid eligibility the part of income that is considered parsonage does not count as income as it isn't part of the MAGI. They still arent living the good life financially but without paying for health insurance and minimal taxes it makes it more feasible. Hope this is helpful.
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Bnei Berak 10




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Oct 03 2017, 4:42 pm
a few possibilities:
being supported in one way or another by family/relatives
food packages etc from help organizations
having a job where it's possible to keep some of the money away from IRS (what we in Israel call black money)
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InnerMe




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Oct 03 2017, 4:45 pm
OP, I think your original post was actually worded in a very sincere and non-judgmental way. I'm with you on this question. You need to make veeery little income to qualify for medicaid and benefits.
The million dollar question is how do the people slightly above that bracket manage?
After taxes, and paying all life basic expenses like tuition, rent and insurance you're left with.. zero? zero minus? How are they supposed to be managing?
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amother
Ivory


 

Post Tue, Oct 03 2017, 5:20 pm
InnerMe wrote:
OP, I think your original post was actually worded in a very sincere and non-judgmental way. I'm with you on this question. You need to make veeery little income to qualify for medicaid and benefits.
The million dollar question is how do the people slightly above that bracket manage?
After taxes, and paying all life basic expenses like tuition, rent and insurance you're left with.. zero? zero minus? How are they supposed to be managing?


News flash
They are not managing.

My brother has eight kids. He has section 8. Must move. No apartments to be found for his size family.
His choices are;
1. pay an ADDITIONAL $2000 a month towards his rent, on top of the section 8. or,
2. relocate to a more remote area where cost of living transportation etc are higher so it would come out to the same.
I told my family we have to help him!! Everyone is like; whadaya mean? We are all struggling. I was devastated!
Its either our dayanim start forcing yungeliet to make sure thier wives are on bc, or, they pressure the yeshivos to give the boys an education. Otherwise, this is plain tzar bal hachaim.
20 years ago, marrying the children off was the thing that broke the heimishe crowd. Nowadays its the everyday living. Most yungeliet get broke way before marrying off first child.
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amother
Burlywood


 

Post Tue, Oct 03 2017, 5:47 pm
the root of the problem is the lack of education. when your graduates leave school (and in this case "school" often ends at 22-23) with an earning power of minimum wage, and are expected to quickly start a family, how can that school then turn around and charge $10k per child? It makes no sense.
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Reality




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Oct 03 2017, 5:51 pm
I think the people whose kids are young are able to swing it for a while. As the kids get older the expenses just get higher and higher and it becomes harder and harder.

The answer is it is not a long term way to live. Its just for a couple of years to get you through the storm. You have to get a better paying job. This is very hard if you don't have family to fall back on. We would never have been able to get out of our hole if we didn't have family to loan us money and babysit for free. Op, do you have family nearby that can help you at all?
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amother
cornflower


 

Post Tue, Oct 03 2017, 5:52 pm
amother wrote:
The way a lot of Rebbeim live is that their income is considered parsonage which makes it that lot of their income is not taxable and for Medicaid eligibility the part of income that is considered parsonage does not count as income as it isn't part of the MAGI. They still arent living the good life financially but without paying for health insurance and minimal taxes it makes it more feasible. Hope this is helpful.


Quote:
A minister's housing allowance (sometimes called a parsonage allowance or a rental allowance) is excludable from gross income for income tax purposes but not for self-employment tax purposes.

If you receive as part of your salary (for services as a minister) an amount officially designated (in advance of payment) as a housing allowance, and the amount isn’t more than reasonable pay for your services, you can exclude from gross income the lesser of the following amounts:

the amount officially designated (in advance of payment) as a housing allowance;
the amount actually used to provide or rent a home; or
the fair market rental value of the home (including furnishings, utilities, garage, etc.).


So I'm not seeing how such a huge portion of income would be considered parsonage.
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amother
Cerise


 

Post Tue, Oct 03 2017, 6:36 pm
Reality wrote:
I think the people whose kids are young are able to swing it for a while. As the kids get older the expenses just get higher and higher and it becomes harder and harder.

The answer is it is not a long term way to live. Its just for a couple of years to get you through the storm. You have to get a better paying job. This is very hard if you don't have family to fall back on. We would never have been able to get out of our hole if we didn't have family to loan us money and babysit for free. Op, do you have family nearby that can help you at all?


Yes, B"H I have family nearby who help out financially and with babysitting etc. But they are not wealthy and even with their help it is a struggle. Their help is what keeps me from totally drowning. And of course I feel bad needing their help. So I know help from family is one way people manage and was curious what other ways there are. I appreciate everyone's responses.
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amother
Cerise


 

Post Tue, Oct 03 2017, 6:39 pm
amother wrote:
The way a lot of Rebbeim live is that their income is considered parsonage which makes it that lot of their income isnt counted for Medicaid eligibility the part of income that is considered parsonage does not count as income as it isn't part of the MAGI. They still arent living the good life financially but without paying for health insurance and minimal taxes it makes it more feasible. Hope this is helpful.


My XDH got parsonage so I have an idea how it works. You are right it helps, but still does not make the numbers add up.
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