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amother
Orange
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 Sun, Oct 08 2017, 2:24 am
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I heard 613 and I heard 1,000. I am not sure which one it is.
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Studious
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Sun, Oct 08 2017, 7:37 am
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Well, this way of counting probably would make women feel bad. No way of ever catching up with the men...
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amother
Wheat
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Sun, Oct 08 2017, 7:53 am
| amother wrote: | | I heard 613 and I heard 1,000. I am not sure which one it is. |
These are just figures of speech, not to be taken literally.
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amother
Ginger
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Sun, Oct 08 2017, 8:58 am
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I heard that one word of learning is equal to all other mitzvos combined (Talmud Torah K'neged Kulum)
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amother
Wheat
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Sun, Oct 08 2017, 9:09 am
| amother wrote: | | I once that one word of learning is equal to all other mitzvos combined (Talmud Torah K'neged Kulum) |
Indeed, but so is yishuv Eretz Yisrael, Shabbos, bris Mila, gemilus chassadim and tzitzis. "Kenegged kulam" is a phrase that Chazal use when they want to say that something is high on the value system. It's not a literal statement.
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PinkFridge
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Sun, Oct 08 2017, 9:18 am
I'm not Hashem's accountant.
I do know that Rav Dessler says that if you take all the pleasure one person can experience in a lifetime, no, all the pleasure everyone alive experiences, no all the pleasure everyone who ever lived experienced, and you could somehow compact it to experience all at the same time, it won't equal a moment of olam haba, which is eternal.
So while I have no idea how your question has a practical application, it's just something helpful to bear in mind in general.
OK, ok, so this is about the primacy of Torah learning and I'm not really at all remotely contributing to an answer to your question. But if you live in the moment, do or facilitate the mitzvah that is at hand at this moment, you will, ultimately, and in this world too, be a happy camper.
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amother
Cobalt
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Sun, Oct 08 2017, 11:11 am
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I don't like the idea of measuring the value of mitsvot. We really have no way of understanding hashem and what the reward will be. I don't think there is anyone here who genuinely appreciates what a mitzvah is worth. If we did then there would be no bechira as we would never stop doing mitvot all day.
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PinkFridge
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Sun, Oct 08 2017, 12:57 pm
| amother wrote: | | I don't like the idea of measuring the value of mitsvot. We really have no way of understanding hashem and what the reward will be. I don't think there is anyone here who genuinely appreciates what a mitzvah is worth. If we did then there would be no bechira as we would never stop doing mitvot all day. |
Ah, but if we live mindfully, there's a whole lot in our daily lives we can elevate to mitzvah status....
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tapuz
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Sun, Oct 08 2017, 12:59 pm
| amother wrote: | | I heard 613 and I heard 1,000. I am not sure which one it is. |
one
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penguin
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Sun, Oct 08 2017, 1:21 pm
| Quote: | | I'm not Hashem's accountant. | Exactly what I was going to say. The accounting department is up there ^ and not our business. If you want to be inspired, take a mitzvah that you feel particularly connected to and work on perfecting it. In addition to all the others, of course.
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amother
Peach
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Sun, Oct 08 2017, 1:55 pm
At the last avot u bamim learning my kids were at, they told a story about a king who had a garden with different trees. The people were helping the king look after the different trees, such as a rose bush, an elm, an oak, maple, apple, etc etc. They could help with whatever tress they wanted. Different people helped wit different trees, some with many, some with few. . Then, at the end of a year, the king paid the people for helping with the gardening. Different people were paid different amounts depending on which tree they helped with. But the people said "this is not fair, if I had realized that you paid more money for this tree instead of that tree, I would have only helped with the tree that pays the most money". And the king said "I know. But my garden only looks nice if all the trees are beautiful. If people knew I wasn't paying as much for a certain tree, no one would look after that tree, it would not look good, and that would spoil my whole garden."
There is your mashal, the nimshal is obvious -in order for the garden of mitzvot to look pretty,we have to do all of them, so we can't know the reward, because if we did, the lighter ones would be ignored.
Having said that- I found the story when I heard it a little disturbing. Unfair to know that YOUR EFFORTS COULD GO TO WASTE. But writing it out righ now made me realize -
Unlike the king in the story, believe that the King of Kings pays for mitzvot on a sliding scale. And the greater the effort, so to, the greater the reward.
So do not concern yourself with calculating the reward for a mitzvah, for it os a calculation that is impossible to know. Rather, use your efforts to do whatever mitzvot come your way. Use all the effort you can. And enjoy serving the Master of the Universe with love.
And remember what Chazal say, that the greater the effort, the greater the reward. That's all you really need to know about the relative value of mitzvot.
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amother
Burlywood
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Sun, Oct 08 2017, 3:43 pm
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how many mitzvot is one caring word to a lonely person worth?
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marina
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Sun, Oct 08 2017, 3:54 pm
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torah learning is only there to enable the other mitzvos. it is nothing by itself. you can learn all the torah that you want but if you are unkind to others, it is worthless
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amother
Tan
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Sun, Oct 08 2017, 3:58 pm
| marina wrote: | | torah learning is only there to enable the other mitzvos. it is nothing by itself. you can learn all the torah that you want but if you are unkind to others, it is worthless |
really?!?!? says who??? of course one must be kind to others but who says being unkind makes torah learning worthless?
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marina
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Sun, Oct 08 2017, 4:27 pm
| amother wrote: | | really?!?!? says who??? of course one must be kind to others but who says being unkind makes torah learning worthless? |
Me. I say it.
Ok also lots of other pple.
derech eretz kadma l'torah
Hillel famously said don't do to others what is hateful to you and the rest is commentary go and learn it. That literally means that being kind to other people is the main point and everything else is just to help you do that and that learning is just to help you accomplish that first rule.
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amother
Tan
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Sun, Oct 08 2017, 4:33 pm
| marina wrote: | Me. I say it.
Ok also lots of other pple.
derech eretz kadma l'torah
Hillel famously said don't do to others what is hateful to you and the rest is commentary go and learn it. That literally means that being kind to other people is the main point and everything else is just to help you do that and that learning is just to help you accomplish that first rule. |
SO your saying that someone that is a kind person has no need to learn torah since they already achieved kindness
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PurpleandGold
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Sun, Oct 08 2017, 4:40 pm
| marina wrote: | | torah learning is only there to enable the other mitzvos. it is nothing by itself. you can learn all the torah that you want but if you are unkind to others, it is worthless |
Actually, the Nefesh Hachaim (and countless other sefarim and commentaries) disagrees with this. There is an entire section of Nefesh Hachaim devoted to the power of Torah learning as a goal unto itself. In fact, Nefesh Hachaim explains that Torah learning is the life force of the universe, and the world would cease to exist if there were a moment when Torah was not being learned, so actually, learning Torah is the greatest kindness of all, because it sustains all of existence.
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PinkFridge
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Sun, Oct 08 2017, 4:55 pm
| PurpleandGold wrote: | | Actually, the Nefesh Hachaim (and countless other sefarim and commentaries) disagrees with this. There is an entire section of Nefesh Hachaim devoted to the power of Torah learning as a goal unto itself. In fact, Nefesh Hachaim explains that Torah learning is the life force of the universe, and the world would cease to exist if there were a moment when Torah was not being learned, so actually, learning Torah is the greatest kindness of all, because it sustains all of existence. |
I think you're both right.
Of course ain hamidrash ha'ikar elah hamaaseh.
OTOH, there IS value in Torah learning for the sake of learning. But if someone is an absolute baal no middos at all, his learning is not worth much. Because middos is part and parcel of the "maaseh."
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chicco
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Sun, Oct 08 2017, 5:06 pm
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I'm with Marina on this. Derech eretz kadma latorah. Which basically means that any Torah one learns without a basis of derech eretz isn't actual Torah learning. It's not that it doesn't count because Hashem isn't pleased, but rather is doesn't count because it wasn't real. Torah is only real when there is a foundation of derech eretz underneath.
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chicco
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Sun, Oct 08 2017, 5:08 pm
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While there is "learning for the sake of learning," a person who doesn't have derech eretz is obviously not learning anything. If the Torah being learned has no affect on the learner, they are "learning" wrong. Reading words and memorizing isn't learning.
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