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amother




Yellow


Post  Sun, Oct 08 2017, 7:11 pm
I'd like to get feedback on the idea of sending a daughter to a secular college after sem for undergraduate studies.

The idea would be to be either living at home or boarding with a frum family.

We are Yekkes - living in a yeshivish community. She doesn't watch TV per se but does watch some "appropriate" and checked shows online.

I'd love to hear from people who have gone through this experience as a frum student or whose children have done so. I know that post-graduate is a different story.

What is the atmosphere on campus, will she be exposed to really treif things? Is there a problem in the lectures or with the lecturers discussing inappropriate material or setting assignments where the students have to give the prof's (liberal) point of view if they want to pass?


I have my point of view on this and my dh has his so I wanted to get outside feedback. We are planning on visiting Columbia and NYU campuses and I would love to know where to go to check these things out for ourselves. We were planning on walking around and possibly attending a lecture. Ideally I would love for us to speak to someone who has experience in this.

Any feedback???
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amother




Navy


Post  Sun, Oct 08 2017, 7:18 pm
What she studies is very relevant to whether she will be exposed to ‘liberal’ ideas in her classes.

What are you (and her) hoping to get out of this experience?
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groovy1224









  


Post  Sun, Oct 08 2017, 7:29 pm
Your question is really too vague. Will the lecturers talk about inappropriate things? They talk about things related to their subject matter. She probably won't be exposed to much nudity in calculus class. Art history, on the other hand..

No matter what her course of study, you won't have the option of choosing only Republican, straight professors. You can certainly expect her to be exposed to foul language from time to time, and adult material in her classes. How much will likely depend on her major.
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amother




Goldenrod


Post  Sun, Oct 08 2017, 7:33 pm
I went to an Ivy for undergrad, although I was not frum at the time.

I majored in engineering. In my STEM classes, I don't recall any ideology at all or any risque material.

I took several semesters of Spanish literature (in Spanish) and there was some pretty explicit se-ual content, as well as profanity in some of the reading and discussion of drug use. I think anyone studying literature or film should be prepared to encounter graphic discussion of s_x, violence, drug use, or other potentially "inappropriate" subjects. It won't be in every course, but a lot of impressive works do discuss these things.

My freshman writing class (Spanish literature in English) touched on some controversial topics and involved more abstract discussion of se_uality (e.g. discussing whether an author's orientation should affect our reading of his work), but nothing explicit. I also took two lower-level sociology classes that focused on some politically hot topics and may have discussed extramarital/premarital/gay relationships academically, but nothing explicit. I did not feel that any of my professors punished conservative views, and I got good grades on the handful of assignments where I took more conservative viewpoints.

That's just one experience and it's somewhat dated, as I graduated over a decade ago. But for what it's worth.
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MagentaYenta









  


Post  Sun, Oct 08 2017, 7:46 pm
From my POV it doesn't sound like a good match. I would think that a sheltered child would some difficulty in a secular university or college, more so if they have little life experience beyond their closed community. In school she may need to work as a team with people who are very different than themselves. How well can your daughter deal with social discomfort and tension?

There are also technology issues, how would you feel about your child self filtering her own internet searches if that's what was needed for a class?

As someone asked up thread, what do you (both of you) expect to achieve from this experience?
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animeme









  


Post  Sun, Oct 08 2017, 7:59 pm
I think it very much depends on the school as well. Columbia and NYU have me worried. I know a lot of people who do night programs and those targeted at peoole getting later degrees and purpose-driven degrees, vs schools that emphasize the college experience. I haven't checked those particular schools lately, but they seem the type to have mandatory programs on things like diversity, as well as socialization components within their school/concentration, so again, it depends what she is studying.

Last edited by animeme on Sun, Oct 08 2017, 8:00 pm; edited 1 time in total
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amother




Yellow


Post  Sun, Oct 08 2017, 8:00 pm
The goal would be to give her an education which opens lots of doors for her. She actually doesn't know yet what she wants to study. I've been hearing that the Trans-g issue is being brought in everywhere - no more separate restrooms, posters in elevators, discussions and assignments in virtually every class. This is all relatively recent with the explosion of interest in the subject.

I'm not worried about the Internet issue - she can handle that and wants to keep away from inappropriate material.
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amother




Yellow


Post  Sun, Oct 08 2017, 8:03 pm
At the moment she's looking into either writing or business.
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JoyInTheMorning









  


Post  Sun, Oct 08 2017, 8:04 pm
I think it would be really bizarre to "attend a lecture" just like that. I've taught at several universities, and I would have considered anybody who just crashed one of my classes to be rude or clueless about social norms. There were students who contacted me before a class and asked if they could sit in. I never had a situation where someone who wasn't a college student yet asked to attend a lecture, let alone their parents.

But many colleges do encourage prospective students and parents to visit. There is usually a tour guide who will take you around. I am not sure how that works -- the tours may be only on set days -- but you could call and ask.

Realistically, though, you have to come to terms with your daughter being exposed to treif things. I was exposed to treif things very frequently during my years at a public college. It happens if you major in math or sciences, because most scientists that I have met are openly atheist, and apparently feel obliged to share their views with those whom they perceive as benighted. It happens if you major in the humanities or social sciences, because the relativistic nature of many of these fields means that any organized religion is considered backward.

Perhaps this is why so many frum parents guide their kids toward being OTs, PTs, or STs; I'd imagine that the courses are more practical, and these issues don't come up. But your daughter will still have to take a good number of basic courses, I would think.

I am assuming that you did not go to college yourself, and don't know how college works? Could you talk to people who have gone, so they can tell you more about the experience?
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amother




Yellow


Post  Sun, Oct 08 2017, 8:06 pm
animeme wrote:
I think it very much depends on the school as well. Columbia and NYU have me worried.

What in particular has you worried?
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JoyInTheMorning









  


Post  Sun, Oct 08 2017, 8:08 pm
I would not worry about the transgender issue. She's not going to be showering at college. A transgender person using a stall next to her stall in a bathroom will not harm her, and in any case, such a situation is as likely to occur in a department store or mall or airport as in college. It's just not a big deal.
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MagentaYenta









  


Post  Sun, Oct 08 2017, 8:10 pm
amother wrote:
The goal would be to give her an education which opens lots of doors for her. She actually doesn't know yet what she wants to study. I've been hearing that the Trans-g issue is being brought in everywhere - no more separate restrooms, posters in elevators, discussions and assignments in virtually every class. This is all relatively recent with the explosion of interest in the subject.

I'm not worried about the Internet issue - she can handle that and wants to keep away from inappropriate material.


It's really unlikely that transpeople are a subject of discussion in maths or engineering. And yes, there are posters and LGBT weeks and National Coming Out Days, and foreign films, and pro and anti abortion groups advertised on many campuses. (Oh BTW TG is not a new conversation, it's just new for you.)That's what happens in a free society.

As to restrooms, caveat emptor, do your own research.
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groovy1224









  


Post  Sun, Oct 08 2017, 8:14 pm
amother wrote:
What in particular has you worried?


They're both very left leaning colleges. It's interesting that given your concerns, those are your first choices.

Why not consider CUNY? Besides being drastically cheaper, there's a huge amount of frum students there so she would at least have a social circle she could relate to.
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amother




Green


Post  Sun, Oct 08 2017, 8:19 pm
The kind of education that opens lots of doors is the kind of education that exposes her to a variety of new people and ideas. A writing program, in particular, is going to push her out of her comfort zone. Campus life at Columbia or NYU, even for commuting students, is full of things that will be shocking to a girl from a protected environment.

Do you really believe that Stern or Touro can't give her what you want? (I went to Stern, then to a secular graduate program for a PhD.)
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finprof









  


Post  Sun, Oct 08 2017, 8:20 pm
FYI you can be frum and liberal! I guess I'm one of those scary free thinking professors you are concerned about, lol! I don't discuss trans-g, pre-marital relations or other issues in my classes (not the typical AACSB curriculum) but I will talk about them in advising sessions if students bring them up. Your daughter will need to take science, art, and psych classes that might cover topics you find offensive but that is part of "knowing the world". If you want her to remain sheltered don't send her, if you want her to choose her own path then let her go. She will surprise you either way.
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sequoia









  


Post  Sun, Oct 08 2017, 8:26 pm
I went to Columbia and loved it. Lived on campus all four years.

This was about a decade ago; my understanding is that some things have changed.
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amother




Yellow


Post  Sun, Oct 08 2017, 8:32 pm
JoyInTheMorning wrote:

I am assuming that you did not go to college yourself, and don't know how college works? Could you talk to people who have gone, so they can tell you more about the experience?


I went to college (not in this country) but that was several decades ago. I became ba'alas teshuvah there but in a more modern group than I am now. I know what I was exposed to then and can only imagine what it's like now.
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amother




Sienna


Post  Sun, Oct 08 2017, 8:36 pm
maybe it's stereotype but I would be more comfortable with a girl going to baruch which is less of a "college"experience but has a good "name".
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amother




Yellow


Post  Sun, Oct 08 2017, 8:38 pm
groovy1224 wrote:
They're both very left leaning colleges. It's interesting that given your concerns, those are your first choices.

Why not consider CUNY? Besides being drastically cheaper, there's a huge amount of frum students there so she would at least have a social circle she could relate to.


We live within commuting distance from NYC - CUNY would be too far away. The only community in upstate NY is Rochester but it's just too small. My dh wants only ivy league or on of the top colleges just below ivy league. I strongly feel that Touro would be much better and then perhaps postgraduate at an ivy league.
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tichellady









  


Post  Sun, Oct 08 2017, 8:46 pm
I went to Columbia and would recommend it to modern orthodox students but it doesn’t seem like a good fit for your daughter based on what you are describing
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