Secular college for undergraduate

MagentaYenta

Sun, Oct 08 2017, 8:51 pm

amother wrote:

We live within commuting distance from NYC - CUNY would be too far away. The only community in upstate NY is Rochester but it's just too small. My dh wants only ivy league or on of the top colleges just below ivy league. I strongly feel that Touro would be much better and then perhaps postgraduate at an ivy league.

What does your daughter want?

amother

Green

Sun, Oct 08 2017, 8:58 pm

amother wrote:

Are you sure that your daughter has the test scores and extracurriculars to get into a selective school?

amother

Chartreuse

Sun, Oct 08 2017, 9:17 pm

I went to Columbia 15 years ago. It was somewhat of a culture shock coming from Michlalah and all girls schools before that but I had worked in the secular world and wasn't quite as sheltered as your daughter seems to be.

Columbia has a Core Curriculum that they are very proud of. Every freshman is required to take 2 semesters of Literature and Humanities in a seminar style course and then 2 semesters of Philosophy in Sophomore year. There is also a music and art requirement as well as 4 semesters of language. Your daughter will definitely be exposed to a lot of ideas and class discussions that might make her uncomfortable.

Have you considered Barnard or Queens College Honors?

TwinsMommy

Sun, Oct 08 2017, 9:18 pm

I went to Brandeis---- grew up Reform, came in Reform.... came out confused. At that time (I graduated in 1996) a lot of us changed our religiosity at Brandeis--- if we came in left wingy, we became more right wingy-- and vice versa. PLENTY of guys davening 3x a day and plenty of guys and gals keeping 100% kosher but there weren't a lot of young ladies in only skirts and there was hardly anybody shomer(et) negiah. VERYYYYY liberal professors and atmosphere in general. Plenty of shiurim and chances for religious growth, but college is very much a place to find oneself. For me, it was great. Not sure how I'll feel when my kids are of age just yet, as they're being brought up frum.

sequoia

Sun, Oct 08 2017, 9:23 pm

amother wrote:

Barnard has requirements as well.

Better do the Core and know you're getting a great education, in my view.

SpottedBanana

Sun, Oct 08 2017, 9:28 pm

amother wrote:

Are you sure that your daughter has the test scores and extracurriculars to get into a selective school?

As an Ivy League undergrad myself, I second this. Don't count your chickens before they're hatched -- Ivy Leagues are incredibly difficult to get into even for the most qualified candidates. And in-school extracurriculars won't be enough unless they've heard of your school (e.g. Stuyvesant) -- you need big-time things like doing actual research over the summer or competing in national competitions.

That being said, you may also consider schools that are not as selective as Ivy Leagues but are still better academically / more prestigious than Stern -- Barnard (it is not an Ivy, case closed, no comments please), Hopkins if she can live with a family in Baltimore, NYU.

If she does get in, let's just say this: she should by no means live in the dorms. As for the classes, business and STEM are completely fine. An English major will be highly, highly problematic. PM me for more details if it becomes relevant.

amother

Yellow

Sun, Oct 08 2017, 9:45 pm

amother wrote:

Are you sure that your daughter has the test scores and extracurriculars to get into a selective school?

No I'm not - but my dh thinks otherwise. She's working on getting a near perfect SAT score - but she doesn't have the extracurriculars.

I realize there are bigger issues at play here. I'm looking for concrete feedback to present to dh. He absolutely does not want her in an inappropriate environment but thinks it's not that bad out there. He wants the best education for her. He thinks Touro is not much better than Community College, basically. My daughter doesn't want to be in a treif environment but also doesn't want to disappoint her father. She's just torn.

We are definitely not modern - Stern is not an option for us. Her sem is yeshivish.

groovy1224

Sun, Oct 08 2017, 9:54 pm

amother wrote:

CUNY schools are in NYC..hence the name. Also within them, there are honors programs that are very well respected (Macaulay honors, queens scholars, etc.)

I would echo other posters encouraging you
to think about whether your daughter has the extra curriculars and background necessary for ivy league admission anyway. Since I would hazard a guess she's been in a basis yaakov school till now?

amother

Chartreuse

Sun, Oct 08 2017, 10:12 pm

I posted upthread that I went to Columbia after Michlalah. I was most definitely on the far right of the Jewish girls there and I can't imagine coming from the type of background you are describing.

It doesn't hurt to take a campus tour to get a feel for the atmosphere and requirements. Also look into Jewish life on campus because it's very hard to go through college without a chevra even or maybe especially if your daughter won't be dorming.

I will echo the other posters who suggested that your daughter might have difficulty even getting into an Ivy. Good grades and test scores won't cut it. She will need an essay that really stands out and extracurriculars or a special talent that will make the admissions staff take a second look at her. Singing in the choir of a BY production won't be enough. It's probably worth applying to different tiers of colleges and picking a safety school or two in order to be realistic.

Have you considered the financial aspects of college yet? It's very difficult to get scholarships at the Ivy level. If you can't afford to spend tens of thousands of dollars outright then you will likely be saddling your daughter with crippling student loans before she even considers graduate school. CUNY schools are much more affordable (especially if you live in NYC or environs) and your daughter may be able to get a merit scholarship so that college will basically be free.

marina

Sun, Oct 08 2017, 10:19 pm

I went to Barnard for a psych degree. I lived off campus in crown heights and was super ultra orthodox chassidish.

The first year classes- the core that others referred to- was the biggest shock to me. We had to read Sylvia Plath and write essays on her etc. I was not a fan. We discussed various hot topic issues abortion, etc. and I was always the most conservative by far in the class, but it did not matter grade-wise. I was never marked off for taking a more conservative position. If anything, the professors all leaned over backwards to give me As.

The history, linguistics, and psych classes that were the actual requirements for the degree were not controversial at all.

In any case, college did not lead to any decrease in religion for me, that came much much later Smile

amother

Khaki

Sun, Oct 08 2017, 10:27 pm

I went to Brown for both undergrad and grad school. It's definitely super liberal, but it also has no core curriculum. So, if you're daughter is good about self-selecting into appropriate classes, it could be a great choice! I was an engineering major and we certainly didn't discuss anything inappropriate in class.

amother

Coffee

Sun, Oct 08 2017, 10:30 pm

My son had a 4.0 high school grade and a1550 on his SAT he had extra curricular and did not get into the IVY.
He did get into NYU but struggled a bit the first year with the freedom associated with colleges

A few years out of college he is no longer frum. If I had to do it again he would have gone to YU
There would have been a more fighting chance for him to continue being frum.

amother

Bisque

Sun, Oct 08 2017, 11:46 pm

Obviously none of us can predict what your daughter's experience will be, but we can share our experiences. I am a BT and had a great college experience, but I was friends with many religious Christians (and in their sweet way tried for years to convince me to convert). Everything worked out great for me (and I'm now wayyyy frummer than I was then) but I would never let my own children go. The relationships/friendships made in college are very influential, it is not worth the risk. My brother married a non-Jew from a college relationship....if you want to give your child the best chance at remaining frum, college is too risky a gamble in my opinion. I wish you and your daughter lots of hatzlacha in whatever you choose!

nicole81

Mon, Oct 09 2017, 12:00 am

amother wrote:

We are definitely not modern - Stern is not an option for us. Her sem is yeshivish.

Can I just clarify... You're saying your daughter is too yeshivish for Stern, but NYU is an option here?? What in the world are yours and her priorities?