I am having a very hard time hosting families. Need advice!

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amother

Seashell

Sun, Oct 08 2017, 11:52 pm

I am married over 20 years. I very have always very much enjoyed cooking and hosting. We have always had lots of people over for shabbos & yt meals, melava malka, hosted sheva brochos, all kinds of parties. I never had a problem. It has always been my pleasure. But I lived most of my married life in a non-frum community involved in outreach. Which meant I was never faced with guests with large families or many small kids. Most people had 2,3 kids - ages very spread out.
About a year ago we relocated to a religious community. I have been anxious to make friends and to help my children make friends and so right away rather than wait to be invited, I started inviting over everyone I met that I thought my family might click with. The invitations are rarely reciprocated, but that's another issue altogether.
My issue is that families are coming over here with multiple children - which is fine - and almost always not watching their babies and toddlers well, not caring how much their older children make messes or scream their brains out, and not respecting our home at all.
I don't understand what's going on here. It's not one or two families. It's the vast majority and it makes me feel like maybe there is something wrong with me? Like, is there some understanding that if I invite people with young children then I am to expect this behavior and if I don't like it too bad, I shouldn't have invited? Is it unreasonable to want to have people over and even lots of kids but just expect some level of parenting from the parents? Some demonstration that they understand my home is not a garbage dump?
I don't understand why I have to be the one to tell a kids to stop jumping on the couch when his mother is right there. I don't understand why I have to be the one to tell other people's kids to come back to the table with their cookies and not wander the house with them. I don't understand why someone's toddler pours a cup of juice on floor and it's me wiping it up while the parents just say "oops." I don't understand why I am the only mother who thinks to tell a group of rowdy boys that the dining room is not a place to play ball, especially by lit shabbos candles. I don't understand why a mother would let a baby sit in her lap mashing up a large slice of chocolate cake which is then massaged into my table cloth and then put the baby down so the cake can also be mashed into the floor and then the walls. I don't understand how a mother can go to collect her children to go home, see the insane mess that they participated in making in the playroom and not even ask her children to help clean up, at least for a few minutes.
I am so exhausted from all this. Maybe people will tell me my expectations of people are too high, but if so that's really sad. Because I really want to have friends and for my children to have friends, but 9 out of 10 times since I moved here I feel abused when my guests go home. I am worn out and I don't know how to handle this other than to just stop having people over altogether, which I hope is not what it has to come to.
I thought that I'd do better over sukkot since we're outside, but you know it wasn't so much better. I had a mother let her baby crawl back and forth on the table where we were eating. With a smelly dirty diaper no less. I just could not believe it. And I watched a couple watch their toddler take a full loaf of challah, put it on the floor of the sukkah and jump on it repeatedly. They just watched. When it became clear they were not going to act I snatched it out from under his feet and threw it out. They still said nothing.
If not for my kids I would just be done. I would only invite empty-nesters or singles. For their sake, I want to find a way to still host families with kids and not lose it -- but I just don't know if that's possible. I feel like I am surrounded by such uncouth, selfish, disrespectful people. I really can't understand this. I would never let my children do these things. I would never treat another person's home with such little regard. Is this the norm these days? I feel like I'm in the twilight zone or something.
Anyhow, if there is any practical advice to give I would love to hear it. If not, it was good just to vent.

amother

Teal

Sun, Oct 08 2017, 11:58 pm

Don't invite any larger than you can handle. I don't either. It's true it can be isolating not being able to find people to invite. But I just can't handle lots of kids all over the place.
Make friends with other families by inviting just the mom and girls during shalos seudos time or inviting the whole family to an outdoor bbq in the backyard and have entertainment ready for them to stay outdoors or go together to the park for a pot luck picnic on Sunday or invite just for dessert on long Friday nights and have games prepared.
Make sure to host play dates or shabbos get togethers for your kids shabbos afternoons. Parents and siblings not necessary to come along for the kids' play time.

amother

Blue

Mon, Oct 09 2017, 12:06 am

I try to be a careful guest and thoughtful host. But some of the things you mention really run in a huge range. My kids have jumped on ppls couches and I have no idea why that would be such a huge imposition. I mean, they don't have their own toys, they are cuddling with mom while she schmoozes and are bored. Who cares if they bounce a little on the couch? They do that on mine at home. If its so precious, you shouldn't be hosting kids.

Mashing cake is kind of normal kid behavior so I wouldn't be put out by that at the table but its weird that its everywhere. And then, not cleaning up your spill is kind of weird. Did you give them a chance to do it themselves or jump up and start cleaning and then they didn't know if they should help or not because it freaked you out?

The fact is that when young women have many many children close in age, its difficult to supervise e/one at all times. My kids have played ball in the living room/dining room with the candles lit. Do I like it? no. Do I stop it? yes. it still happens. and my kids are good kids.

I think you need to baby proof or find some older singles.

amother

Gray

Mon, Oct 09 2017, 12:25 am

I disagree with blue those families sound really rude. Where do you live?

amother

Violet

Mon, Oct 09 2017, 12:31 am

I don't know why your kids having friends depends on hosting families for Shabbos or Yom Tov meals. Don't they make friends at school?

You can also make friends in other ways, at shul, by going to shiurim or exercise or art classes, for example, or meeting other mothers at school functions.

(In my community it's rare to host another family unless they're relatives, in which case if they don't watch their kids one hopes they can be tactfully told ... but we've had those threads too. I guess not always.)

nacs

Mon, Oct 09 2017, 12:43 am

I'm also have to disagree with the above poster- Blue...I live out of town , I host often and such behavior would wear me out and horrify me. It's a blatant lack of regard for the host's home and space and a lack of graciousness as an invited guest not to mention the poor chinuch example they are setting for their children

amother

Blonde

Mon, Oct 09 2017, 12:46 am

amother wrote:

Really? When you go to someone else's house, bring along toys to entertain your kids. Don't let them trash the place.

tichellady

Mon, Oct 09 2017, 1:21 am

I don’t have kids and host friends with 1-3 kids all the time and no, I would not tolerate what you are describing. Sounds crazy to me. That is not normal behavior.

etky

Mon, Oct 09 2017, 3:22 am

amother wrote:

Kids have to know that behavior that may be tolerated at home is not acceptable at other people's homes or in certain public locations (shul, a library, museum, public transportation etc.) where behavioral norms and expectations are different. It's a distinction that has to be taught and inculcated early on. They have to learn to respect other people's space and property. If you can't provide the kind of supervision necessary to ensure that your kids respect these boundaries then you need to decline invitations (unless you know in advance that the hosts don't expect you to reign your kids in) and choose your outings and destinations selectively.

amother

Lime

Mon, Oct 09 2017, 3:56 am

Regarding your kids making friends, can you invite other kids over during the week? Just a few hand-picked kids to play together? Go to the park together? Bake and cook something with them? Paint with them etc.?

I'm also thinking of something a neighbor of ours does: every Shabbat afternoon, they read Tehillim together with any neighborhood kids who want to come, of course they've got sweets and drinks there as well. A lot of kids go there (without their parents), they all chant Tehillim together on that family's big balcony, quite a sight. And no wild behavior tolerated. Kids who misbehave can go home right away - hardly ever happens.

Other than that, I know the unruly kids problem from "the other side". I've got 3 small children, aged 2,3 and 5. We occasionally get invited by our neighbors for Shabbat meals. I find it very difficult to keep the children under control (they are very undisciplined at home as well, we're getting counseling for that). Some invitations I just decline because I feel we can't handle it. On other occasions I've spent most of the evening trying to prevent my kids from wrecking our hosts' house with the result that I barely had time to eat anything myself, let alone talk to our hosts or other people at the table. My husband tries to help but he usually ends up engrossed in talking to people and loses track of the children 10 minutes into the evening... I've got no solution for that other than to wait until the kids get older.

[edited for more clarity]

amother

cornflower

Mon, Oct 09 2017, 4:06 am

that is unbelievable what is going on. I would agree to not invite for meals, but to invite the kid for a play date or shabbos party for half hour & then they go home. I wouldnt be able to put up with this..

Bnei Berak 10

Mon, Oct 09 2017, 5:20 am

I am totally flabbergasted that parents tolerate such a behaviour from their children. Apparently these parents have abdicated from their task which is to be parents and what comes with it. OP, make rules in your house. Be firm with what is acceptable and what not. It's your house=your rules.

amother

Magenta

Mon, Oct 09 2017, 5:47 am

I think you need to stop hosting temporarily. Go to shul and meet people there. You will get an idea of how they parent. You'll see who watches their kids in shul and who let's them trash the place. I won't invite people who don't parent. I just can't handle it. I have many children very close in age. When we were invited out we never let our children wander away. We followed them. And we always brought toys and books for them. We put a lot of energy into patenting and still continue to do so, even though our kids are teens.

Lazy parents make me nuts. I did not have easy children. Most were quite difficult and took a lot of mental and physical energy. People always ask why they ate so good etc... I always respond a lot of hard work. Most didn't just pop out like this.

I constantly remind them how to behave and how to act at a table. And it pays off. Other parents are unable or unwilling to put in the time.

So we host people who we know have a handle on parenting, and we host the others on sukkot where the mess doesn't matter. Or we see them during the week not in our home. I also have no problem correcting extremely bad behavior in my home. If I see you kid running up my stairs with food, I'll say, please the food at the table. If they don't listen, I'll tell the parents. Uncomfortable but has to be done.

Raisin

Mon, Oct 09 2017, 5:49 am

Maybe look out for single mothers with smaller families who would appreciate an invitation? Plus of course singles, widows, widowers on their own. There are other ways of making friends. When I was a teen, me and my friends often went to each other for shabbos lunch. No need to invite the whole family.

As for cleaning up, I have no issue telling my young guests they need to clean up the toys they are playing with.

imasinger

Mon, Oct 09 2017, 6:36 am

I admit, OP, I don't get it either. I wonder if it's cultural.

It's not that couches are more precious than people, amother blue. It's that hosts are people too. It's that in my circles, it would be rude for a child to jump on someone else's living room furniture, and even more rude for a parent not to stop them. A caring parent would want to impress on their children the importance of being respectful to their hosts.

When you make closer friends, you can ask them about the issue.

But for now, be prepared to police, with a smile and self deprecation. "Oops, a spill. Toddler's mom, here's a towel, could you please help me with that juice puddle while I put the cup in the kitchen?"

"No, dear, challah is not for jumping on, that makes it all dirty. Mom, could you please grab it for me? Sweetie, would you like to jump over here?"

"Tables are for food, not for babies! Oh, dear, he needs a diaper change. Can I get you anything to help? Here he is, there's a good corner over there."

"Before anyone leaves, can everyone help me pick up the playroom?"

Enlist your children to help watch/play with younger guests, keep order, and tell you about problems.

Put anything you care about, including uncut challahs after motzi, out of reach.

Yes, these are things that in my neck of the woods shouldn't need to be said. But better to say them than to be a martyr and come to hate having guests.

Maybe, if this is the prevailing culture, it's easier to understand why your invitations aren't often reciprocated. Maybe not many others can handle the work of having guests like that either.

33055

Mon, Oct 09 2017, 6:59 am

amother wrote:

Your attitude is extremely disrespectful, and you seem to have given up on your responsibilities. Your don't get an exemption because you have a lot of kids.

I wouldn't consider your kids good kids if they came in my home, mushed cake, played ball near the candles, and jumped on couches without being reprimanded. I would consider them undisciplined brats. I would feel bad for them that their mother has a too bad for you attitude towards her hosts. I don't know where your husband is in all this. But, I wouldn't let my kids near your house.

I also hate when I go to restaurants and see large families with your kind of parenting - a real too bad for you attitude towards the staff and other customers.

slinky

Mon, Oct 09 2017, 7:14 am

Squishy wrote:

I disagree with you about restaurants. We were in a restaurant recently a (very average one not an upscale one) that the waitress/waiter constantly came over to our table to tell us to clean up after our 2 year old dd since she was making a mess on the floor around her area only. We politely told them wer'e really sorry but this is what 2 year olds do and we will definitely clean up when she is done however to constantly clean up while she is eating just makes no sense. When they did not leave us alone dh did complain to the manager about it. We were paying for the service too and if a restaurant allows kids in they do have to understand that while kids are eating they might make a mess around them. Before we left we made sure the floor and hi chair was pefectly clean.

33055

Mon, Oct 09 2017, 7:38 am

amother wrote:

I hear you sister. I also host large families, and I can add to your stories.

My kids know it is their job to corral the guests' kids when they leave the Shabbos table and try to go wandering through the house. I enlist older guests' kids to help watch the younger ones. My kids will tell the guests no jumping on the couch in our house. I will tell the kids they are not puppies when they crawl under the table and their parents ignore. I tell them up front that food is only eaten on the table

I speak up from the table and will tell my guests their baby is crawling on the table and I think they need to check their babies diaper.

Remove all balls and throw toys when you have guests. Provide them with a few quiet toys.

And most important, don't have them back when they complain that no one invites them out.

Try to invite select kids over for the sudar that match your kids' ages if you want to pursue these friendships. You don't need to host the whole family again.

rowo

Mon, Oct 09 2017, 7:57 am

I've learned to let go a bit when having families with kids over but some things I still don't tolerate.
Most of our hosting is more 'kiruv' related, so not so many young children, but sometimes we have frum families as well.

I know that part of the deal of having families with lots of kids is the clean up after, but I'll speak up during the meal if I have to.

Calmly but firmly remind kids not to go upstairs if I seem someone wander off exploring, or I'll go ask for a bit of a clean up before more toys get taken out.
If I serve them ice cream for dessert I'll give them a napkin with it and tell them it has to be eaten at the table or outside.

Some of those situations you described do not sound menschlich on the parents part.
I understand that when people are out that want to sit and enjoy the meal and company, but they can't just ignore their kids.

And when people don't even pretend to offer to help clean up, argh it ends the day with such an annoying feel.

Culturedpearls

Mon, Oct 09 2017, 8:29 am

Where do you live OP? I too love hosting but could not do this.
Most of our guests either need an invite or kiruv but the frum families with small kids we have hosted have never left my house in shambles or not cleaned up the toys.
I have no issue with kids being kids but what you’re describing are lazy parents who don’t discipline. Don’t do it.
Invite a friend for each child at a time.
Host people who would appreciate or need a Yontif meal.
I enjoy my guests.
When my older kids were young & very boisterous and going out was going to be a difficult experience we refused invitations.

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