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Forum -> Parenting our children -> School age children
Public school- should we send?
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amother
Mauve


 

Post Mon, Oct 09 2017, 3:01 pm
amother wrote:
It sounds like OP would try it for the youngest classes, and then transition back for first grade. Is there really so much more limudei kodesh before first grade than a child in a frum home would naturally pick up? If anything, she may come back to yeshiva ahead of the class in reading.

We'd consider doing just that - send to great local public schools before first grade - but the social and family pressure is unrelenting.

Public school - at least where I live - is only one grade before first, called kindergarten. In some schools in the NY area, it's called pre1A, or primary (age 5) with kindergarten (age 4) the year before that. My daughter will know how to read both English and Hebrew after this year, and I can't imagine a child going from public school to first grade without knowing how to already read Hebrew properly. All the other Hebrew knowledge (and there's a lot) I agree could be learned at a later age without too many problems. I'm actually surprised by the level of my daughters education, and she's not in a "good" school relatively speaking.
Two things my daughter recently learned that she wouldn't pick up on at home: saying leshana Tova tikasev vesechasem to my husband, and the girl version to me, and that merrin is carrots and means more, and we eat it on R"H. small things, but there is a lot of general knowledge taught already at that age.
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Pooh




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Oct 09 2017, 11:00 pm
As someone who has her dd In ps for temporary special ed reasons, I can tell u I am counting down the minutes until she is ready to mainstream into a a Bais yaakov... no matter the price. Maybe it has to do with where she specifically goes, the district, the state, whatever, but if u are in Brooklyn please don't! Aside from her getting the support for her special needs which I'm happy with (due to a lack there of something equivalent in the Jewish special ed schools), everything else surrounding the ps system I hate!
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icebreaker




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Oct 09 2017, 11:16 pm
I find it so sad that it is engrained in parents’ heads that Jewish children need to go to Jewish schools but the Jewish schools are incredibly (or getting there) expensive and have crazy criteria you have to meet and even that isn’t even a given that your child would be accepted. A lot of my friends who send to Jewish schools, even Modern Orthodox, complain that the education isn’t even that great for the amount they’re shelling out.

My kids have gone to public school since the beginning of their school years. I moved to a district within the city with fantastic zoned schools and then I send my kids to Chabad for Jewish studies. My kids are doing great in public school and I don’t regret sending them.

But I do think it’s something you should think long and hard about. Make a list of pros and cons and really dig into it.
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amother
Slategray


 

Post Tue, Oct 10 2017, 12:29 am
icebreaker wrote:
I find it so sad that it is engrained in parents’ heads that Jewish children need to go to Jewish schools but the Jewish schools are incredibly (or getting there) expensive and have crazy criteria you have to meet and even that isn’t even a given that your child would be accepted. A lot of my friends who send to Jewish schools, even Modern Orthodox, complain that the education isn’t even that great for the amount they’re shelling out.

My kids have gone to public school since the beginning of their school years. I moved to a district within the city with fantastic zoned schools and then I send my kids to Chabad for Jewish studies. My kids are doing great in public school and I don’t regret sending them.

But I do think it’s something you should think long and hard about. Make a list of pros and cons and really dig into it.


I doubt I'd be religious if I'd been sent to public for middle/high school. I guess there are many things to factor in. I went to public for elementary and it was just fine, but I think things get more complicated once you get into the older years.

I do NOT want to send my kids to public. I have no idea how we will pay for private.
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amother
Floralwhite


 

Post Tue, Oct 10 2017, 12:43 am
I went to public school growing up, and went to after school hebrew/Judaic School 1-2 times a week. I went to one of the top school districts, in middle class suburbia.

Looking back now, I wish I could have gone to a Jewish day School, I think I would have been much happier in one. There were few Jewish kids at my school. It was always ackward around Xmas since I was the only student who didn’t celebrate. I was honestly embarrassed to be Jewish sometimes and wish I could fit in with the other kids.
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Rodent




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Oct 10 2017, 8:30 am
We pulled our kids out of a Jewish school and put them in public school. We have no regrets.
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saw50st8




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Oct 10 2017, 1:00 pm
I know a few families who do this. It's something I've considered but then a more affordable (and wonderful) school opened up. Here are a few questions you should answer in your consideration:

1) Will the neighborhood kids still play with your children? In my neighborhood, there really isn't a stigma against PS so the kids all play together, but you have to know your neighbors. It can be very socially isolating to have no friends at shul and Shabbat afternoon.

2) Will you have the dedication to keep Judaic studies going? To be honest, 95% of what they learn in Kindergarten is not a big deal, even first depending on the school. But teaching them Hebrew reading is really critical. Also, can you keep up with some skills that the locals schools do? Teach chumash (even if it is less than the local school does), keep up with the same tefila etc. The skills are really what is important at that age, more than the content. You can teach a kid a brief overview of a few parshiot, but they need the skill to actually learn in the chumash.

3) Will you be able to transition them back to yeshiva? Does the school have a policy about this?

4) Will you actually save the money or will you slowly start using part of it as can happen naturally and then still not be able to afford yeshiva?

5) Do you have the strength to deal with the neighborhood yentas?

I know people who have done it and even successfully transitioned their kids back to yeshiva. It just takes a LOT of dedication.
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amother
Lilac


 

Post Tue, Oct 10 2017, 7:19 pm
OP here. I just wanted to thank you all for such incredibly thoughtful replies. You really amaze me every day, amothers, for your sensitivity and willingness to see other people's sides.

To the amothers who believe I should NOT send to PS-- assuming I have worked out the logistics of teaching them Hebrew and giving them a supplementary Jewish education, that they will have friends at shul/in the community, that we will daven and do the Yomim Tovim together, that the school I plan on her attending is willing to take her back, and that we save, rather than squander, the money unspent-- are there are other thoughts you have? Besides for the gut-feeling of "a Jewish education is better!", is there anything you can say to convince me? I haven't yet heard of a real reason to not send, which I thought there would certainly be...
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amother
Jetblack


 

Post Tue, Oct 10 2017, 7:23 pm
One other thought: how will your savings from not paying tuition impact the amount you pay when she returns to day school? If you would otherwise get a tuition break, but instead have to spend those savings, then you haven't gained.
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33055




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Oct 10 2017, 7:38 pm
amother wrote:
OP here. I just wanted to thank you all for such incredibly thoughtful replies. You really amaze me every day, amothers, for your sensitivity and willingness to see other people's sides.

To the amothers who believe I should NOT send to PS-- assuming I have worked out the logistics of teaching them Hebrew and giving them a supplementary Jewish education, that they will have friends at shul/in the community, that we will daven and do the Yomim Tovim together, that the school I plan on her attending is willing to take her back, and that we save, rather than squander, the money unspent-- are there are other thoughts you have? Besides for the gut-feeling of "a Jewish education is better!", is there anything you can say to convince me? I haven't yet heard of a real reason to not send, which I thought there would certainly be...


There is a certain foundation or commonality that is missing from a child that goes to public school and transfers in and is never made up even with tutors or at home.

I am the first one for advocating for better secular schooling, but you lose something by not having the shared fundamentals.

"Give me a child until he is 7 and I will show you the man."
Aristotle, The Philosophy of Aristotle
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DrMom




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Oct 10 2017, 11:42 pm
amother wrote:
One other thought: how will your savings from not paying tuition impact the amount you pay when she returns to day school? If you would otherwise get a tuition break, but instead have to spend those savings, then you haven't gained.

Maybe she wouldn't have gotten a tuition break anyway...?

Or maybe she'll be flat broke instead of underwater.
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Seas




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Oct 10 2017, 11:51 pm
amother wrote:
OP here. I just wanted to thank you all for such incredibly thoughtful replies. You really amaze me every day, amothers, for your sensitivity and willingness to see other people's sides.

To the amothers who believe I should NOT send to PS-- assuming I have worked out the logistics of teaching them Hebrew and giving them a supplementary Jewish education, that they will have friends at shul/in the community, that we will daven and do the Yomim Tovim together, that the school I plan on her attending is willing to take her back, and that we save, rather than squander, the money unspent-- are there are other thoughts you have? Besides for the gut-feeling of "a Jewish education is better!", is there anything you can say to convince me? I haven't yet heard of a real reason to not send, which I thought there would certainly be...


Because only half or less of the aim of a Yiddishe moised is to give the child a Jewish education. The other half is to protect them from all the chazerei they'll get learning with and befriending goish kids.

A Yiddish kid has no business mixing with goish kids.
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amother
Blue


 

Post Wed, Oct 11 2017, 12:23 am
Seas wrote:
Because only half or less of the aim of a Yiddishe moised is to give the child a Jewish education.


From OP: I went to yeshiva day school myself and got a pretty bad education...

Hey Seas, it sounds like that’s exactly what the problem is. Who cares if the kids are properly educated (Jewish or secular), as long as we keep them insulated from people that they may have to work with one day?

My entire office is non jewish, except my bosses. Most of my neighbors are as well. Do I ban our kids from talking to each other? Most of the women I know work outside of the community. And you may not have the same life she does. So maybe be a little less harsh?
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amother
Orchid


 

Post Wed, Oct 11 2017, 12:33 am
Seas wrote:
Because only half or less of the aim of a Yiddishe moised is to give the child a Jewish education. The other half is to protect them from all the chazerei they'll get learning with and befriending goish kids.

A Yiddish kid has no business mixing with goish kids.


Try reversing that. Jewish schools not only impart skills and information, they also create opportunities for social interaction within the community.

As a practical matter, why should a child keep up with extra Hebrew classes after school when the other kids get to play soccer? The model of public school with supplementary Jewish education has, for the most part, not succeeded. And that's in cases where there was no option of day school. Here, you could send your child but would rather spend the money elsewhere.
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DrMom




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Oct 11 2017, 12:39 am
Seas wrote:
Because only half or less of the aim of a Yiddishe moised is to give the child a Jewish education. The other half is to protect them from all the chazerei they'll get learning with and befriending goish kids.

A Yiddish kid has no business mixing with goish kids.

Wow. It seems there is no shortage of "chazerei" foisted upon Jewish children in some Jewish schools. Different chazerei, but chazerei nonetheless.
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RebekahsMom




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Oct 11 2017, 12:51 am
I’m all for public schools, especially for smaller children. You’re saving thousands, they’re getting a good education. My kids needed a lot of therapies not offered by day schools. They’re also several years above grade level.

If you teach at the school she’s going to in the future, perhaps getting her in won’t be a concern. But make sure she is keeping up with her studies. Make sure she’s playing with friends from shul. Try to find an area where she will be in school with other likeminded children.

In the future, she will likely end up working outside of the community, and the education/ understanding/ friendships will help. But make sure she has a firm foundation before going out into the world. Good luck.
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RebekahsMom




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Oct 11 2017, 1:01 am
Seas wrote:
Because only half or less of the aim of a Yiddishe moised is to give the child a Jewish education. The other half is to protect them from all the chazerei they'll get learning with and befriending goish kids.

A Yiddish kid has no business mixing with goish kids.


Funny- I just clicked on similar links at the bottom. It started with “WWYD”. Don’t know how to link to it. This story was in there.

amother wrote:
[I]My friend's daughter went to day school from pre-school through high school, and not only dated a non-Jew, she's living with him and their baby. Not married. Now you've heard another apocryphal story that is meaningless.

Public school is not going to hurt your son's neshama. He's not going to accept JC as his personal lord and savior at age 4 if he builds a couple of brick towers with a non-Jew, or even if he winds up singing Frosty the Snowman.


I see many benefits to day school. Please don’t think that I’m knocking the decision. I’m just saying that there’s plenty of chazerei to go around.
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amother
Mauve


 

Post Wed, Oct 11 2017, 1:18 am
How sheltered is your home? My kids don't watch TV, and we have very strict rules about the kind of speech we use at home, the kind of music we listen to, etc. there is a real difference in the mannerisms of those who are accustomed to standard American culture. When we go to the library, the differences are very obvious to me. (It's little hard to pin point and I don't want to insult anyone by giving examples) I'm happy to have my children exposed once a week for an hour or so But every day? No way. Why would I expose her to secular culture that we have nothing to do with? Now, if your anyways accustomed to that lifestyle, then I guess these are not concerns for you. Just pointing it why for someone like me, even at the kindergarten level, I wouldn't do it.
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BlueMarker




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Oct 11 2017, 1:59 am
When the previous Chabad Rebbe came to America one of the first things he established was Jewish schools as he saw that it was the way to guarantee the future of Judaism. Sending a child to a Jewish school is more than the total of all the benefits- education, friends, community acceptance etc. Yes, those are all important but it's more about the Jewish identity. When a child is in a Jewish school with teachers and friends who practice and live Judaism he/she knows that this is HIS identity. When a child is in an environment that has a basis that is not necessarily aligned with the basics of Yiddishkeit, ESPECIALLY in their young years when they are so impressionable (another mother quoted Aristotle...) it can affect them in a very strong way
I feel pretty strongly abt this but don't want to come across as preachy so pls let me know if you'd like me to elaborate.

Another point abt the cost: sometimes the fact that you are sacrificing all that money just so your child can be in a Jewish, kosher environment can have more of an impact than anything else
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amother
Rose


 

Post Wed, Oct 11 2017, 4:30 am
My brother tried it for a few years of elementary school and his daughter is not frum anymore.
She stopped keeping things to fit in with her PS friends and even though he got her into a modern Jewish high school, she never went back to religious life and automatically befriended the least frum kids in her high school class.

It's playing with fire - if having frum, tznius, mitzvah-observant children is a priority in your life.
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