S/O secular college- Stern

amother

Bronze

Mon, Oct 09 2017, 5:41 pm

tichellady wrote:

I don’t believe this ( I’m modern orthodox) but I could imagine the argument goes as follows: that at Columbia they would know what’s treif and what’s not and at stern it would be too difficult to distinguish between real frumkeit and modern orthodoxy

Yes my parents think like this. I went to a secular, co-Ed college in NYC. I married a BMG learning boy. Knowing myself, had I gone to stern there's no way I'd go for a guy like that, I would've wanted a YU guy, or definitely someone with a degree and a more modern, cosmopolitan edge. The logic may be messed up, but this is how it worked for me.
- also, my husband wouldn't have dated me if I'd gone to stern. That would be aligning myself with MO.

Maya

Mon, Oct 09 2017, 5:51 pm

amother wrote:

Lol, if your responding to my comment. The horns aren't the issue. I think it's natural that parents want their kids to follow their derech, and the one they were raised in. They obviously think it's ideal.

This is a spinoff from a thread where the OP and her husband are extremely concerned about liberal influences on their yeshivish daughter, yet are only considering ultra-liberal schools like Columbia and NYU, while absolutely ruling out Stern on the basis of more left-wing religious issues, not academic comparisons.

How in the world does that make one iota of sense?

amother

Cyan

Mon, Oct 09 2017, 6:08 pm

I went to Stern and loved it! Probably best years of school career! That being said I understand why some people would prefer secular. When I went to sem I got more annoyed with the hanhalah because I was looking to them for spiritual guidance.

When I went to Stern, I personally went with my eyes wide open, I knew to find out which teachers I would feel comfortable with etc... I had my friends, I didn't expect everyone to be like me. For people who think that anything a "Rabbi" says is torah misinai it can be problematic because some teachers are more "controversial" then others. I know even now I often have an "easier" time reading secular books which I know I have to censor then Jewish books that I keep on being disappointed that I also have to censor what is true for me.

Of course I remember a friend saying that by the time you get to college you should be equipped to recognize emes on your own and not have to only take a certain "type" of teacher. But then that's getting in to the whole is it a good or bad idea to shelter yourself.

pesek zman

Mon, Oct 09 2017, 6:25 pm

tichellady wrote:

This was the case for me. My RW yeshivish brookyn school wouldn't send my SAT scores or write me any letters of recommendation when I applied to Stern.

It's backward thinking and while it was their philosophy it didn't take ME, my needs and what was best for me into account.

I went to stern without their help and without their blessing. So glad I did.

amother

Smokey

Mon, Oct 09 2017, 6:56 pm

amother wrote:

Op here. I went to Stern too. Which controversial and dangerous views did you find to be so prevalent at Stern? What did you feel you had to shelter yourself from there?

amother

Cyan

Mon, Oct 09 2017, 7:10 pm

honestly I didn't have any bad experiences as I said I loved it Smile

. I just stayed with the familiar but I know that the rabbis are from a range within orthodoxy so for example I hold women need to cover their hair, I wouldn't be surprised if someone gave a class discussing why you don't have to.

Some people would view that as a good thing, you should know all sides before you make a decision about what you hold and some people wouldn't. Personally I had no interest in hearing the debate but that was me personally. I came from a more modern community so I was coming in very differently then someone from a very sheltered background. I'm just saying I can understand why some parents would be concerned. And some people would find it "concerning" that some parents would be concerned Wink

.

I think some people also don't realize what Stern is- they don't realize that there is such a thing as right wing modern orthodox. They also don't realize that not everyone there is even MO.

I'm not trying to bash Stern or any of the rabbis who teach there, I'm just trying to explain people's logic.

amother

Burgundy

Mon, Oct 09 2017, 7:20 pm

amother wrote:

honestly I didn't have any bad experiences as I said I loved it Smile

I think the bolded is so true. I went to Stern. I have many friends who went to Stern. And almost none of us identify as MO (nor did we identify as MO when we were in Stern). However, most of us had exposure to the MO world and/or were from a MO upbringing so our experience was definitely different than someone coming from a BY background.

amother

Smokey

Mon, Oct 09 2017, 8:38 pm

amother wrote:

honestly I didn't have any bad experiences as I said I loved it Smile

Ah. As you say most of the rabbis and students there are RW MO or even further to the right. I don't recall any classes encouraging the girls not to cover their hair at all.

Most of my friends at stern went to MMY and Michlalah and are very solidly frum to this day. Most did marry YU guys but I had several who did marry more RW kollel learners.

amother

Periwinkle

Mon, Oct 09 2017, 9:09 pm

If you have been telling your child for 18 years that secular ideas are treif, meeting frum Jews whose religious life is enhanced by secular knowledge undermines your whole way of life.

There are viewpoints in the right wing world that I find misguided and perhaps even assur. I'm not afraid of letting my kids be exposed to that world, because I know they are equipped to take the good and reject the bad. That's part of their education.

It's very sad that Zionism at Stern is poison while Israel Apartheid Week at Columbia (do they still do that?) is acceptable. Yet that's what comes from not trusting yourself to distinguish between ideas.

amother

Mint

Mon, Oct 09 2017, 9:16 pm

I have a friend from oot who chose to go to touro manhatten and live in the dorms as opposed to going to secular college in her home state and live at home. I went to visit her in the dorms there and was really disgusted with what I.saw and was very happy with my decision to live home and go to secular college as opposed to the "frum" dorms. However if living at home was an option I would have faster gone to stern than secular college but I do hear the argument that secular college u know you are different...

amother

Mint

Mon, Oct 09 2017, 9:21 pm

amother wrote:

I am yeshivish and I do not believe peoples problems is zionism at stern. There are many fantastic tzinyus girls that go there but at the same time the languge dress and behaviors of some girls is far from what I want for my daughter. At a secular college there is a clear boundry. You are different. At stern everyone is frum so someone can be "influamced" easier.

amother

Periwinkle

Mon, Oct 09 2017, 9:51 pm

amother wrote:

I don't think the problem is Zionism either, but that's what the poster in the other thread claimed. Yes, if a Bais Yaakov girl goes to Stern she will meet girls whose clothes don't meet the guidelines with which she grew up. But why is that such a threat? My sons can spend time with chassidim who they think are fine Jews and still be careful about davening on time.

seeker

Mon, Oct 09 2017, 10:15 pm

Not going to go over thoughts that were already said by others, but I do want to add that it's likely the parents favoring NYU over Stern are a little out of date. 20 years ago I could see room for saying that it's easier to hold onto your mesorah when the people around you are so "other" that there's no connection. Probably even 15 years ago that could be said. The deterioration of secular liberal colleges over the last decade or so has been so precipitous that I would no longer consider that an option. You're no longer able to choose a "secular" college. You're going to be serving one ideology or another.

I also want to add that there is a big difference between graduate and undergraduate programs. If someone is going to a graduate program in a focused area (meaning: engineering, not philosophy) you can handle the secular college the same way you would have handled a secular undergrad of 20 years ago (take what you want, leave the rest, stay true to yourself.) But undergraduate includes so many types of courses that are going to be used as platforms for garbage.

And I am saying this as someone who would be considered relatively liberal by many in the ultra-orthodox community. I'm not the kind of person who ran away from liberalism because it was different. It's just that at this point the liberal community has gone so far off the deep end it's scary.

I did that myself, BTW - bachelor's degree from a "frum" school and masters in a quite liberal college. They gave a little smirk at the interview when they saw which school I was coming from but my grades and interview skills took care of the smirk and nobody has asked about my undergrad education since (professionally, I mean. Shidduchim and Jewish geography is a whole 'nother story!) Only a few/minor uncomfortable conversations came up in my graduate courses, on the level that was easy enough to call it a learning experience. The posters, demonstrations, and other activities going on around the campus were revolting but had nothing to do with me and I tried to get to and from my classes as quickly as I could. A friend of mine who is a better person than me took a more active role in trying to get involved in countering the problematic activities (specifically the anti-semitic ones) but I sadly did not have that kind of initiative and by the time she started I already had one foot out the door and a family waiting at home.

amother

Bronze

Mon, Oct 09 2017, 10:27 pm

Maya wrote:

Ahh you're right, it doesn't at all. My parents ruled out stern but also Columbia, Prat, and Parsons. All for hashkafic reasons.( I went to a different secular coed college)