Are these gadol stories true?

amother

Wheat

Tue, Oct 17 2017, 10:10 pm

Teen ds is enamored by modern gadol stories. He thinks they are so cool- I think the stories are taken out of context because I can't imagine what he is sharing makes sense. For example..
Rav Ovadia Yosef wore sunglasses because as a child he would sneak a sefer into his room at night and learn in the dark- even though his mother told him not and to go to sleep.
ds sees how devoted at such a young age he was to learning- I see it as a story about aboy who did not listen to his mother andit also shows, you shouldn't read in the dark- but really I don't think that is why he wore sunglasses.
2 more stories ds shared were about Rav Kanievsky and he is so ethereal and on such a high madrega he doesn't know what food is-
That he eats but doesn't really taste. If someone brought him an apple he would say what is this. That he takes all the courses from his Shabbos meal puts them in a big bowl and eats it all together and then pours the any liquid left into a cup and drinks it so that he will not miss out on any part of seudat Shabbos. I can't believe such a story to be true- how can he not know foods- I am sure he has to paskin on issues about them and plus we are supposed to enjoy and appreciate the foods that Hashem has given us and really taste the beauty of the food.
finally he shared a story about teen that went to visit Rav Kanievsky and he was wearing a white shirt that had the polo logo on it. Rav kanievsky commented about the polo logo and asked him why he was wearing a donkey on his shirt. Really??? How can a gadol take a chance and make a comment about the clothing someone is wearing-especially a teen- you are taking a chance of sending him off the derech.
Do any of these stories make sense. He has other stories, but these are the more recent ones. He hears theses stories from friends who also think they are cool.
I am glad that ds has respect for gadolim, don't get me wrong, but these stories are wacky to me and I don't think are the kind of role model stories that our gedolim are deserving of. Am off base?

amother

Chocolate

Tue, Oct 17 2017, 10:23 pm

Few comments:

1. In regards to Baal Shem Tov stories there is a saying that says, "If you believe all the details, you are a fool. If you believe none, you are an apikorus." I think the same applies here. Details often get changed and warped in transmission from one to the next.

2. I am very, very close to a certain family of a very big Rebbe. His SIL is an absolute tzadik in his own right, and one time I was eating the Shabbos seudah with them. When it came time for the soup course, his SIL ate without pausing, but one of kids jumped up, "Tatty! Stop! It's not soup... It's FISH SAUCE!"

LOLOLOLOL His rebitzin had by accident defrosted fish sauce and he HAD NO CLUE. My husband was in disbelief, but yes, this man is on such a high level that he doesn't eat for taste, he eats for the mitzvah of eating as service of Hashem.

I've also seen many,many open miracles happen for this family.

3. As for the comment about the polo shirt, things can be said meanly, humourously, lovingly... I doubt it was said in a painful way, if it was said at all.

amother

Chocolate

Tue, Oct 17 2017, 10:26 pm

amother wrote:

That he takes all the courses from his Shabbos meal puts them in a big bowl and eats it all together and then pours the any liquid left into a cup and drinks it so that he will not miss out on any part of seudat Shabbos.

This is obviously not true in its entirety, because it would be forbidden to mix chicken soup and fish and chicken...

amother

Peach

Tue, Oct 17 2017, 10:54 pm

The fish story reminds me of a family member. She was blind and poured orange juice instead of milk into the cereal. In her case, it was lack of taste buds more than madrega. The kids (myself included) all cracked up but were silenced before correcting her.

My story is very true, and not meant to offend your son or Amother Chocolate, who knows him personally. It is, however, a reminder that when people admire someone, gadol or otherwise, they look for a deeper meaning in every little action. And with each retelling of a story, details change.

Unfortunately, pointing out the error of the story (mixing all foods is forbidden) would fall onto deaf ears for your son. He will just think you’re trying to tear down his hero. So perhaps listen, agree to some points, and remind him that there is more than one side to a story and he should consider everything he hears.

amother

Apricot

Wed, Oct 18 2017, 12:21 am

Rav Ovadia Yosef had sensitive eyes and wore sunglasses to protect them.

Not recognizing the taste of food seems more ungrateful than spiritual to me.

Your son seems to admire people who overcame their physical selves. This might be an adolescent way of coping with the many changes to his own body. He might genuinely have an ascetic personality.

For most people, fighting against human nature is setting yourself up for failure. It might be wise to look for more well rounded role models.

amother

Burgundy

Wed, Oct 18 2017, 12:28 am

Take everything with a grain of salt. And don't idolize humans of flesh and blood.

As for fish sauce and chicken soup... Lol my sister sent food to my mother for shabbos and during the seuda as she served the bowls of chicken soup my BIL said something is wrong it smells like warmed fish. Thanks to his good nose none of us had to taste the vile mixture of chicken soup and fish sauce warmed together. Mom thought both containers were chicken broth and warmed it all together. Needless to say, we did not have chicken soup at that shabbos meal. But I don't doubt that everyone would have spit out their first spoonfuls had we not realized ahead of time.

amother

Chocolate

Wed, Oct 18 2017, 12:39 am

amother wrote:

You seem to be a person that doesn't understand what a gadol is. A gadol is a person that is less connected to the physical realm than the average person. Much of it happens naturally, without a fight. The Rabbi that didn't recognize he was eating fish sauce always, always makes a point to compliment the cook on her wonderful cooking, no lack of gratitude.
What is actually happening, is that much like you may hyper-focus on things that are intensely important to you, these tzadikim can hyper-focus on deep spiritual matters to the point that bodily sensations at certain times of focus fade into the background.

And daring to insinuate that gedolim are not well-rounded is such a horrific thing to do! Everyone needs heights to gaze upon, but to realize where they themselves stand.

zaq

Wed, Oct 18 2017, 1:14 am

Meh. Your ds is a teenager. They tend to hero worship. Better he should be enamored of gedolim stories, however unlikely they may be, than of stories about celebrities and popular “heroes” whose legends are questionable in the sense of being unsavory rather than in the sense of being difficult to believe. Unless your ds is showing signs of going off the deep end religiously, his love of these tales is harmless.

Our tradition is rich in mythology. The tales probably have at least nuggets of truth at their core, but as a pp mentioned, the stories change with every telling. Even her quip about believing Besht stories, I heard attributed to Rambam speaking about belief in demons.

You might want to gently remind ds that gedolim stories are not intended to be historically accurate biographies but are intended to teach moral lessons. To emphasize those lessons they make liberal use of hyperbole and should not be taken as literal truth in every detail.

imasoftov

Wed, Oct 18 2017, 6:52 am

amother wrote:

In regards to Baal Shem Tov stories there is a saying that says, "If you believe all the details, you are a fool. If you believe none, you are an apikorus." I think the same applies here. Details often get changed and warped in transmission from one to the next.

Unless it was a bat kol that did the saying, I think it's fine to believe in even none.

zaq

Wed, Oct 18 2017, 7:31 am

amother wrote:

Thanks for sharing- that is a great fish story and it could probably happen to anyone who is not in the kitchen much!!

You do know that “fish story” means a story that is incredible in the sense of being wildly exaggerated if not an outright lie (as opposed to in the sense of exceptionally good) right? It derives from the supposed tendency of those who fish for sport to wildly exaggerate both the size and ferocity of the fish that got away and their own heroic battles to capture them. So yes, many legends are indeed “fish stories”.

PinkFridge

Wed, Oct 18 2017, 8:29 am

Is he hearing these stories or reading them in full length books that theoretically had some oversight? (Again, not that all the stories are necessarily 100% authenticated but it's something.)
I second that b"H these are his heroes vs. sports stars, etc. Read up on some yourself (and their Rebbetzins, such as Rebbetzin Kanievsky) and share some of the stories that move you, the stories of chessed and ahavas Yisroel. Maybe it'll make a dent ;-)

simcha2

Wed, Oct 18 2017, 9:33 am

It is fine for him to find inspiration in these stories, but they should probably be balanced. Teach him the difference between biographies and hagiography.

If Hashem himself doesn't make our leaders in the Torah into saints, not sure we should to living (or recently deceased) leaders. Yitzchak appreciated good food (he sent Eisav to make him some) as did Avraham (as you can see when the malachim arrive).

Trying to see the lesson rather than the literal, and a whole person rather than a saint are the ideal.

Chayalle

Wed, Oct 18 2017, 1:13 pm

I have a relative that is descended from the Chafetz Chaim, and I heard that his daughter (Rebetzin Faiga Zaks) said that a high percentage of stories she's heard told about him never happened. The remaining ones did not happen as they are told....

Still, they don't say those stories about me and you (to borrow from a story told about the CC, that a judge was impressed just by the fact that they said that about him) so I can be inspired and assured that he was a very great man.

OP, I think the important thing here, as a parent, is to give over a sense of balance to your teen. It's fine to find a story about a Gadol inspiring, but he should not think of jumping levels and taking such things upon himself. Where he is right now, he should eat the courses at the Shabbos meal along with his family, and be aware that he is NOT R' Chaim Kanievsky just yet. It took many years for R' Chaim to become R' Chaim, whether the story is true or not.

leah233

Wed, Oct 18 2017, 1:20 pm

Chayalle wrote:

How could she, who wasn't born until her father was about seventy years old, know that a high percentage of stories she's heard told about him never happened?