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Can I borrow a cup of sugar?
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amother
Copper


 

Post Wed, Oct 18 2017, 4:41 pm
If you ask a neighbor to borrow some oil, an onion, an egg, whatever when you're in a pinch and need something to complete a recipe, do you ever offer to pay for it or make an effort to replace it later? Do you expect that from a neighbor borrowing from you?

What if the neighbor is borrowing very frequently or in large amounts? Like a whole carton of milk, a full box of margarine sticks, a 5 lb bag of flour or a full dozen eggs. At what point does being neighborly become abusive?

I'm kind of peeved right now. Yesterday morning my neighbor asked for milk and when I asked how much she said "a lot - as much as you have" so I gave her an unopened carton. I just assumed she'd replace it later that day when she went shopping but she didn't and I didn't have a chance to go shopping yesterday either so this morning my kids had no milk for breakfast.

Am I to blame for not saying up front that I need it replaced? I thought it would be obvious that I'm not a food pantry. If she took one egg or half a cup of sugar or one carrot - ok, that seems like normal neighborly borrowing. But to take a full milk (and last time it was a full 5 lb bag of flour and the time before that a dozen eggs) and never offer to repay or replace? Is this normal among neighbors? It doesn't feel right to me. Just thought I'd ask how others feel before I open my mouth to her about it.
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BetsyTacy




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Oct 18 2017, 4:45 pm
Absolutely not normal, unless you have borrowed some diamond earrings from her and haven't returned them Very Happy

A few eggs, a cup of juice is not expected back. Maybe next time she'll want to "borrow" a
whole brisket?
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mommyhood




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Oct 18 2017, 4:47 pm
Not normal. When I give I specify if it's a gift. If not I expect to get it back but I would not expect it the same day.
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allthingsblue




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Oct 18 2017, 4:52 pm
That's not normal. But you shouldn't have given her "all that you have." Especially since In the past she hasn't returned a bag of flour or a dozen eggs, why would you assume she'd return the milk?
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amother
Cerise


 

Post Wed, Oct 18 2017, 4:57 pm
Totally not normal, time to be assertive and stop letting her "borrow" from you
and you should totally call her up and "remind her" to get you a milk, a dozen eggs and a bag of flour. and if she asks you to pay her back then you seriously have a situation at hand
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thunderstorm




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Oct 18 2017, 5:00 pm
If I only had one bottle of milk and needed it for the next day, I would specifically tell the person that I'd need the replacement since it's my last bottle of milk. Otherwise I wouldn't give it. I only give when I know I won't need it. I never expect items to be returned . Of course most often they are but I just don't have expectations because people are different and forgetful etc.
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amother
Cerise


 

Post Wed, Oct 18 2017, 5:04 pm
Most people don't expect to get back a cup of sugar/flour/oil or an egg or two.....but a whole bag, a dozen eggs, a full carton is a totally different story. of course the neighbor may not know your expectations, that is where you come in....
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doodlesmom




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Oct 18 2017, 5:07 pm
She needs to return it halachically and morally
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Amarante




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Oct 18 2017, 5:08 pm
I don't think this is just restricted to borrowing eggs but also when you eat out.

I had lunch with a GF who I lunch with frequently and we were discussing a mutual shnorrer of a friend who insists on splitting a bill evenly even though consistently her bill is much higher since she drinks alcoholl at meals and we typically don't.

I worked with a woman who was constantly borrowing a dollar for the vending machine. She never remembered to pay it back and I always felt stupid asking her to repay a dollar. So finally when she asked for a dollar, I told her I only had $10 and gave it to her. That way I lent her the money but it was a large enough sum so that I didn't feel stupid asking for repayment. Of course, now with venmo, it's so much easier to repay small sums immediately - but that's another story.

I think if I am in a situation that "feels" mutual then I don't lend an egg or cup of milk with an expectation of getting back. However, in the situation that the OP states I would definitely feel abused and taken advantage of. I would probably just stop having anything to "lend" to her in the future.

But your neighbor is a shnorrer. I mean the behavior is normal for a shnorrer but only the most brazen and insensitive people want to be known as shnorrers. :-)
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groisamomma




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Oct 18 2017, 5:14 pm
I hate borrowing from neighbors for this reason. The halachos and neighborly expectations are murky and some people expect to be given "gifts" when they borrow something from me. The best is when I had just barely moved in and sent my kid down to return some sugar or something and the neighbor said she doesn't take returns because it's ribbis. So I'm left feeling like I owe her something forever, like I shopped in her pantry for free.

A whole dozen eggs, a full carton of milk, and a 5-lb bag of flour are not gifts. She needs a reminder to return them. How about sending your kids down to say something like, "My mother wants to know if you had a chance yet to buy xyz."
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animeme




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Oct 18 2017, 5:34 pm
If I borrowed a full carton of milk, I would replace it. But I might not do so until the next evening. If I'm borrowing, then I can't get out of the house to buy, and in my world, that often means until late. So if I need something dor a specific time frame, I won't lend unless the borrower can get it to me by then (or if she has a good enough reason for me to devide to go without.)
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zaq




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Oct 18 2017, 5:43 pm
Of course you have to return; that’s why it’s called “borrowing “. If you don’t intend to return it’s called “mooching” “sponging” “schnorring” and a host of other uncomplimentary terms.
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Shoshana37




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Oct 18 2017, 5:43 pm
Halachacli she has to return it however few eggs or cup of juice etc not expected of course. I have been in similar situations few times I have a neighbor who asks to use my Bosch machine for challa making since I it's too expensive I don't lend it and told her to come mix at my house but few times that it happened she came with all her unruly kids and on school nights and just was inconvenient for me in so many ways after my long hours at work . So right before rosh Hashanah she asked me again so I told her we are busy and I felt guilty so I mixed it up with my ingredients and sent it with my daughter to her hoping she will send me flour replacement. This happened few times so I keep telling myself it's all from Hashem and it's just a test and I don't mind the money I spent on flour as kappara or tzedaka .
So just think of it as test from Hashem.
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amother
Green


 

Post Wed, Oct 18 2017, 6:40 pm
Really it depends on your relationship with your friends.
I know with me and my friends if we each borrow a cup of something or half of something we never repay but if it is a whole of some
thing we do.
My friends have asked me for meat or challah over Yom to because they didn't have enough, and if I needed it after they took it I would go to another friend to get from her. That's the kind of set up we have.
My friends have come around on Shabbos looking for fish or chulent because they needed more. I never expect to get repaid for it.
Before Rosh Hashanah we always ask each other if we Mochel each other for not returning something or we gave too much it too little back.
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RebekahsMom




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Oct 18 2017, 6:41 pm
I had a neighbor that was a borrower. Thankfully she often returned items with a little extra- needed a cup of flour, bought a small bag to return. But the borrowing was constant. Drove me nuts.

I would never expect a half cup of milk back, on occasion. That’s being a decent neighbor (especially since this woman struggled). But an unopened canister? There’s no excuse for this! I would definitely ask.
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tweety1




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Oct 18 2017, 9:27 pm
I return everything I borrow. I once had to borrow a tsp of vanilla sugar. My neighbor sent me a full container saying that if she won't give me a full container then I won't repay her cuz a tsp I wont repay but a full container I will
What I'm trying too say is depends what you lend her. A tsp of vanilla sugar plz forgive but a carton if milk dont.
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amother
Forestgreen


 

Post Wed, Oct 18 2017, 9:33 pm
I'm surprised how many posters are saying that a few eggs aren't expected to be given back. Why not?
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LittleDucky




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Oct 18 2017, 9:48 pm
I don't lend if I need it unless I can get a verbal " I'm going to the store in X time but my kid is crying for milk now and mine spoiled overnight...."

I also was taught never to ask to borrow something but to ask to HAVE. That way you don't have to return if you forget. It totally is Ribbis to borrow a cup and return a bag.
Ask your LOR how true gifts would differ.

I might call and ask if she picked up milk for you yet. Explain it inconvenienced you and you need it. If she acts like she never expected to return it, I might next time be coincidentally out of it. Or not have enough to give etc.
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FranticFrummie




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Oct 18 2017, 9:57 pm
Wow, your neighbor has some serious chutzpah!

I was raised by Benjamin Franklin's words - "Neither a borrower nor a lender be." If I can't run down to the corner merkolet and get what I need, then I do without until the next time I get to the store.
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amother
Scarlet


 

Post Wed, Oct 18 2017, 10:00 pm
Amarante wrote:
I don't think this is just restricted to borrowing eggs but also when you eat out.

I had lunch with a GF who I lunch with frequently and we were discussing a mutual shnorrer of a friend who insists on splitting a bill evenly even though consistently her bill is much higher since she drinks alcoholl at meals and we typically don't.

I worked with a woman who was constantly borrowing a dollar for the vending machine. She never remembered to pay it back and I always felt stupid asking her to repay a dollar. So finally when she asked for a dollar, I told her I only had $10 and gave it to her. That way I lent her the money but it was a large enough sum so that I didn't feel stupid asking for repayment. Of course, now with venmo, it's so much easier to repay small sums immediately - but that's another story.

I think if I am in a situation that "feels" mutual then I don't lend an egg or cup of milk with an expectation of getting back. However, in the situation that the OP states I would definitely feel abused and taken advantage of. I would probably just stop having anything to "lend" to her in the future.

But your neighbor is a shnorrer. I mean the behavior is normal for a shnorrer but only the most brazen and insensitive people want to be known as shnorrers. :-)

I hate to preach, but that was loshon hara which is at least as bad as her schnorring. You discussed her bad habits with your GF?!
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