Do you believe in birthday personality horoscopes?

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amother

Powderblue

Sun, Oct 22 2017, 11:54 am

Do you believe in it? Do you think Jewish law approves of it?

Lady Bug

Sun, Oct 22 2017, 12:18 pm

I believe it, not necessarily in the horoscope version though. I'm not familiar enough with the intricacies of it to tell you exactly which part I believe and which I don't, but in general, I believe that when we are born influences/stands for specific character traits.

In Jewish "law", there is the Mazel of the month. There are also different character traits based on the day you are born.

Ruchel

Sun, Oct 22 2017, 12:18 pm

It's a thing, but not the horoscope you find in the newspaper

BadTichelDay

Sun, Oct 22 2017, 12:55 pm

No, I don't believe in it or any other type of horoscope.
Regarding Jewish law, I don't know what the actual halacha is. But doesn't it say somewhere אין מזל לישראל, meaning that the fate of the nations is guided by their stars and planets but the fate of Am Israel is only guided by Hashem directly and not by any מזל?

Edit: a brief google search yielded that it's from the Gemara Shabbat 156 a

emzod42

Sun, Oct 22 2017, 1:05 pm

Only when they're right 😀. I doubt it's approved of.

amother

Smokey

Sun, Oct 22 2017, 1:19 pm

Chazal definitely used astrology and had all sorts of conclusions about being born under whichever zodiac, I have no idea if their astrology lines up with today's "astrology". I happen to fit the characteristics of my sign, but my doesn't fit his and only one of my kids fits theirs so it seems coincidental to me. In fact, in my case, it may even be a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy. I grew up in a kind of hippy-dippy environment where these sorts of things were talked about a lot and people use to tell me all the time "wow, you're a Leo! A born leader!" etc and I kind of fulfilled what was expected of me.

MrsDash

Sun, Oct 22 2017, 1:22 pm

As much as I believe in flying unicorn monkeys.

imasoftov

Sun, Oct 22 2017, 1:25 pm

amother wrote:

Do you believe in it? Do you think Jewish law approves of it?

1. Not even for those to whom אין מזל לישראל doesn't apply.
2. When I find a unicorn I will check to see if it has split hooves and chews its cud.

mandksima

Sun, Oct 22 2017, 2:15 pm

I was always intrigued by this and saved a local newspaper clipping from my birthday horoscope from when I was a young teen. It actually was very spot on with how my life turned out and I had forgotten about it for a long time then found it again and realized how true it was.

It was for my English birthday which doesn't have my Jewish mazal attached to it. I don't believe my life had to turn out anything like it but it was a typical reading for people born on my date under certain influences. Everyone agrees with that usually as astrology is a real thing, just not important for Jews. My Hebrew birthday is much more meaningful spiritually for me as the date is very significant to my soul and I think defines my life best. So, it is entertaining in a way to read those but the mazal isn't locked into a reading like that. You definitely can't go to fortune tellers. I think reading a horoscope is pretty benign as long as you don't hold water to it. I'm sure every Chinese fortune cookie might have meaning for you if you think hard enough about it but it doesn't mean you would change any plans because of it, I hope. Hashem sends us little messages when we are open to them but it is always best to make sure these readings are from a truly kosher Torah source.

Many go to kabbalists to tell them future shidduchim birthdays and names and such to see if they are compatible. So, there's something in it but only if you believe in it otherwise it should hold no importance for you.

I enjoyed reading this:Jewish Astrology

zaq

Sun, Oct 22 2017, 2:29 pm

No. I believe that believing in this is frank avodat kochavim. Even if I believed that the stars affect the fates and personalities of nonJews, which I don’t, “ein mazal leYisrael”, which means that the stars have no power over us.

water_bear88

Sun, Oct 22 2017, 3:13 pm

I like to read my horoscope occasionally after it's already passed- I think they're funny. Such ridiculous generalizations- either it's something that could apply to nearly anybody (a la "you'll have a meaningful conversation today with someone with the letter A in their name") or they're patently ridiculous- like when my baby's horoscope is all about the direction his/her career will take this week.

SpottedBanana

Sun, Oct 22 2017, 3:19 pm

zaq wrote:

This is a bit more complicated than it looks. Mazel is still a real thing. How Free Will Works does a good job explaining how it actually works.

In terms of newspaper horoscopes, they are complete hokum. "Real" horoscopes based on Chazal's characterization of the mazel you were born under? I'm not 100% convinced we know how to apply this to real life, but Rav Smith in Michlalah did give a class on it and he had plenty of sources.

DrMom

Sun, Oct 22 2017, 3:47 pm

I do not believe in horoscopes.

I do not know if Jewish Law approves or not.

flowerpower

Sun, Oct 22 2017, 3:59 pm

Nopes!

amother

Pearl

Sun, Oct 22 2017, 5:12 pm

I go by the מזל of the חודש not astrology etc. But I do see the personality somewhat is similar to the horoscope whatever it's called. But my dad always says
Yidden are above the מזל

amother

Orange

Sun, Oct 22 2017, 5:33 pm

The Talmud explains that mazel is a very real concept, the stars and planets are mazalos, with conducting malachim, and the planet, star, hour of the day, day of the week, chodesh, etc, you were born under, in short "your mazel", all influence your destiny. Mazel dictates your personality (as in being born under the planet mars, or " mazel dam" will give a person an angrier nature), your fertility, your financial and social status, etc, etc. Any auspicious day or event is influenced by mazel, hence we Jews say " mazel tov" (ever wondered what that means exactly?) and "b'shaah tovah" about these sorts of things. The concept of mazel applies to all of creation, Jew and non Jew alike.

However, a Jew is invested with the potential to overcome his mazel through tefillah, which is why chazal say "ain mazel l'yisrael." Dovid Hamelech and Eisav were both born under the mazel dam, and had natural passionate natures and ruddy complexions, but Eisav chose to live his life according to his mazel, becoming a man of murder and lust, while Dovid became a man of prayer ("v'ani tefillah"), which made him transcend his nature, and use his passion for good.

If you suspect you were born with a mazel that dictates something negative in any area of life, the answer is passionate, unrelenting prayer.

imasoftov

Sun, Oct 22 2017, 7:50 pm

amother wrote:

The Rambam explains that mazel is a very real concept, the stars and planets are mazalos, with conducting malachim, and the planet, star, hour of the day, day of the week, chodesh, etc, you were born under, in short "your mazel", all influence your destiny.

I'd like a reference to where Rambam wrote about mazalot influencing one's destiny

RebekahsMom

Sun, Oct 22 2017, 7:56 pm

A family member based her day on horriblescopes. It was sad.

I enjoy reading them at night or the next day and getting a laugh out of the suggestions.

That being said, I’ve read star birth charts (based on time/ date/ location of birth), and those seem quite accurate unless you’re a preemie. We read them one day and laughed at how close they were- “wow, brother. That’s so you! Did you see what it said about me?” but I most certainly am not basing my life/ decisions off of them.

agreer

Sun, Oct 22 2017, 8:13 pm

No and no. (answering OP's 2 questions.)

Horoscopes are stupid and so general they can apply to anybody the way they are written.

amother

Orange

Sun, Oct 22 2017, 8:24 pm

imasoftov wrote:

I'd like a reference to where Rambam wrote about mazalot influencing one's destiny

I corrected my post to exclude the reference to the Rambam. I was mixed up, I recalled learning the Rambam about the mazalos and how they originally became worshipped, and confused it with the many places in the gemarah, medrashim, sifrei kabbalah, and Rashi that describe mazel as influencing destiny. I apologize for the wrong information in my earlier post.

I also want to repeat that chazal teach that unlike the nations of the world, Klal Yisrael has no representing malach, and therefore has the most direct access to the King through prayer. A Jew can change his destiny through koach hatefillah. Therefore the Jewish people transcend, or are above, mazel.

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