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Are all Ashkenazi Jews descendants of Yiddish
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amother
Copper


 

Post Sun, Oct 22 2017, 4:43 pm
I'm just reading about the Yiddish language and was surprised to see that it's from the 9th century!!! That's 1100 years old!
My kids actually want to speak it, because they learned about it and they want to preserve it. So I decided to read up on it. And I'm thinking that they're right. For all who are Ashkenazi, did all our grandparents for many hundreds and maybe a thousand years speak Yiddish? And if yes, isn't it important that we preserve it somehow?
I always loved Yiddish, but viewed it as a language that Chassidim tried to keep to just as their other other Minhagim from prewar Europe. But now I'm actually happy and appreciative that they've helped preserve this important language.
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Maya




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Oct 22 2017, 4:49 pm
Are you reading Yiddish Civilisation?

There is a pretty big Yiddishist movement that has nothing to do with Chassidim. It's a wonderful language, and there is a decent representation in the arts and culture to appreciate if one looks for it.
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amother
Goldenrod


 

Post Sun, Oct 22 2017, 6:08 pm
I feel sad that my family is slowly losing this beautiful language. Both my dh and I were raised speaking Yiddish - not Chassidish - but even though we started off speaking Yiddish to my older children, we stopped because no one around us (in our community) speaks it, and our children would have been the only ones...

I feel it's really a pity, especially as Yiddish was slightly different from different countries, and the only variation being preserved is the Hungarian/Czech version. I am sad that our version is almost completely gone.
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Maya




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Oct 22 2017, 6:16 pm
amother wrote:

I feel it's really a pity, especially as Yiddish was slightly different from different countries, and the only variation being preserved is the Hungarian/Czech version. I am sad that our version is almost completely gone.

Not really. YIVO is preserving a different version, one more in the style of the Lithuanian dialect, and that is the version used in academia, and in the translation of books.
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amother
Goldenrod


 

Post Sun, Oct 22 2017, 6:22 pm
Maya wrote:
Not really. YIVO is preserving a different version, one more in the style of the Lithuanian dialect, and that is the version used in academia, and in the translation of books.


Lithuania wasn't the only country in Europe! But anyway, are you sure that the version they are preserving is the Lithuanian dialect? Because I read some of them a long time ago, and it sounded nothing like the Lithuanian dialect I was exposed to. For example, they seemed to have made it more secular, and took out most of the words with religious connotations - but I read this a long time ago, and I could be wrong.

I just checked this book on Amazon - it looks interesting - if you have read it, is it worth buying? Thanks.
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Maya




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Oct 22 2017, 6:26 pm
amother wrote:
Lithuania wasn't the only country in Europe! But anyway, are you sure that the version they are preserving is the Lithuanian dialect? Because I read some of them a long time ago, and it sounded nothing like the Lithuanian dialect I was exposed to. For example, they seemed to have made it more secular, and took out most of the words with religious connotations - but I read this a long time ago, and I could be wrong.

I just checked this book on Amazon - it looks interesting - if you have read it, is it worth buying? Thanks.

You read some of their what a long time ago?

I didn't read the book yet. It's still on my list
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amother
Copper


 

Post Sun, Oct 22 2017, 8:18 pm
I'm reading about the YIVO institute now. Seems like they did an amazingly thorough research.

My question is more about frum Jews whose ancestors spoke Yiddish a thousand years ago, but they don't even know it. I mean, I had no clue that it's so old, and that it's probably what my grandparents spoke for generations upon generations. Until a day ago, I thought it's a Chassidic thing. I find that sad. I would've made a better effort to speak it had I known its worth.
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zaq




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Oct 22 2017, 8:24 pm
YIVO is preserving an artificial “standard” Yiddish that is a compromise among various dialects, that no one ever actually spoke but that in theory everyone would be able to understand because it includes elements from all of them. The only people who speak YIVO Yiddish are people who learned it artificially from classes rather than from home.
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amother
Sienna


 

Post Sun, Oct 22 2017, 8:33 pm
amother wrote:
I'm reading about the YIVO institute now. Seems like they did an amazingly thorough research.

My question is more about frum Jews whose ancestors spoke Yiddish a thousand years ago, but they don't even know it. I mean, I had no clue that it's so old, and that it's probably what my grandparents spoke for generations upon generations. Until a day ago, I thought it's a Chassidic thing. I find that sad. I would've made a better effort to speak it had I known its worth.


not sure what you are looking to hear... Yiddish was the language spoken by most Jews in Eastern Europe - secular to frum (Chassidish and Litvish).

It was important for my great-grandparents to pass along Judaism to their children - the religion, not Yiddish - the culture.

I'm happy there are people keeping up the Yiddish culture - but I don't feel that it needs to be me. I'm happy with a few words here and there - we got to 'shul' we 'bentch' ...

ETA - important to me (and my parents) that my children learn modern hebrew.
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amother
Teal


 

Post Sun, Oct 22 2017, 8:35 pm
Yes, Yiddish is a real language with real culture behind it! It's a shame it's been looked down on the last several decades. It's not an ignorant thing at all. There was a thriving culture of art, literature, and theater (Yiddish theater was seriously acclaimed). And it's a real academic discipline. My German grandparents spoke German but knew how to communicate with their yiddish speaking counterparts. I wish I knew more yiddish than how to swear LOL
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zaq




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Oct 22 2017, 8:47 pm
YIVO Yiddish is decidedly not Lithuanian Yiddish. Neither is the Yiddish spoken today in Litvish yeshivas. Yeshivas speak American Litvish Yiddish, a very different animal. My sons , who learned their Yiddish in American yeshivas, sound nothing like my Lithuanian-born relatives and the Lithuanian-born worshippers in the shul in which I grew up. Sadly, they are pretty much all gone now so I have no one to ask when I have a question about Lithuanian pronunciation. The Yiddish of BMG is not it.
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amother
Aquamarine


 

Post Sun, Oct 22 2017, 8:52 pm
There are a few things I dont understand in your post.

amother wrote:
I'm just reading about the Yiddish language and was surprised to see that it's from the 9th century!!! That's 1100 years old!
My kids actually want to speak it, because they learned about it and they want to preserve it. So I decided to read up on it. And I'm thinking that they're right. For all who are Ashkenazi, did all our grandparents for many hundreds and maybe a thousand years speak Yiddish?


Maybe. There is no way we can know that about each individual ancestor.

amother wrote:
And if yes, isn't it important that we preserve it somehow?


As far as I know, its being preserved. I think you dont have to worry about it.

amother wrote:
I always loved Yiddish


Nice.

amother wrote:
but viewed it as a language that Chassidim tried to keep to just as their other other Minhagim from prewar Europe.
And therefore?


amother wrote:
But now I'm actually happy and appreciative that they've helped preserve this important language.


So were you unhappy before and now you are happy already?
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Maya




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Oct 22 2017, 8:55 pm
zaq wrote:
YIVO is preserving an artificial “standard” Yiddish that is a compromise among various dialects, that no one ever actually spoke but that in theory everyone would be able to understand because it includes elements from all of them. The only people who speak YIVO Yiddish are people who learned it artificially from classes rather than from home.

Perhaps, but this still means that there is a Yiddish other than the Chassidish / Hungarian that is being preserved.
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amother
Goldenrod


 

Post Sun, Oct 22 2017, 8:59 pm
Maya wrote:
Perhaps, but this still means that there is a Yiddish other than the Chassidish / Hungarian that is being preserved.


Not really. I gave a quick glance at their website - definitely not the language either my grandparents or parents or in-laws spoke.
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Maya




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Oct 22 2017, 9:00 pm
amother wrote:
Not really. I gave a quick glance at their website - definitely not the language either my grandparents or parents or in-laws spoke.

Maybe not yours. But it's certainly not the Chassidish / Hungarian version.
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amother
Copper


 

Post Sun, Oct 22 2017, 9:04 pm
amother wrote:
There are a few things I dont understand in your post.

So were you unhappy before and now you are happy already?


I think my post was pretty straightforward and easy to understand. Let's not make it complicated.
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amother
Rose


 

Post Sun, Oct 22 2017, 9:16 pm
I am a Chasidish Yiddish author. I have written Yiddish college exams for our Heimishe students to take and earn credits for, since they weren't familiar with the Yivo dialect tested in the standard exams. A distinguished Yiddish professor in California was extremely supportive of us doing this customized exam, although it is not the dialect he teaches. He beleives nowadays Chassidim are the true heirs of Yiddish, since they are virtually the only ones passing on the language to the next generation.
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zaq




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Oct 22 2017, 9:17 pm
Maya wrote:
Maybe not yours. But it's certainly not the Chassidish / Hungarian version.
Not anybody’s version. And while there is a sizable body of mostly secular Yiddishists preserving some form of the language—mostly the YIVO version—and yeshivish men preserving American Yeshivish, the largest and fastest growing group of Yiddish speakers is Chassidim.

The secular Yiddishists are not speaking Yiddish all day every day or having families of seven to twelve Yiddish speaking children who establish a new generation every 18 to 20 years. The yeshivish speakers are not speaking Yiddish all day every day or teaching their wives and daughters to speak it. Chassidish Yiddish speakers outnumber everyone else and the disparity will only grow.
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amother
Rose


 

Post Sun, Oct 22 2017, 9:19 pm
amother wrote:
Not really. I gave a quick glance at their website - definitely not the language either my grandparents or parents or in-laws spoke.

AFAIK the early Yiddishists mostly originated from Poland. THis is the primary dialect in the YIVO version, plus many added rules and regulations that were never really implemented in everyday language.
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Maya




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Oct 22 2017, 9:22 pm
zaq wrote:
Not anybody’s version. And while there is a sizable body of mostly secular Yiddishists preserving some form of the language—mostly the YIVO version—and yeshivish men preserving American Yeshivish, the largest and fastest growing group of Yiddish speakers is Chassidim.

The secular Yiddishists are not speaking Yiddish all day every day or having families of seven to twelve Yiddish speaking children who establish a new generation every 18 to 20 years. The yeshivish speakers are not speaking Yiddish all day every day or teaching their wives and daughters to speak it. Chassidish Yiddish speakers outnumber everyone else and the disparity will only grow.

Of course. But as an institution, YIVO preserves a dialect that is not Chassidish. That's all I'm saying, as a response to the OP's claim that only Chassidish/Hungarian Yiddish is being preserved.
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