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Religious discrimination (leaving early friday) - options?



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amother
Chocolate


 

Post Fri, Oct 27 2017, 8:38 am
I got hired for a job that is ONLY during the morning. The job never requires that I work late.

However, they have a 2 week training before the job that is until 7 pm every day. I will have to miss only 1.5 hours on one Friday. I told them I have to leave 1.5 hours early for one day of the training. They said training is non-negotiable and anyone who misses any training for any reason cannot be hired. That is their policy. I explained that it's not a choice that I don't care enough or I can't make the hours work - it's not an option for me to break my religion.

I need this job but this is the deal breaker. They say it has nothing to do with religion - company protocol is you can't miss any training. No exceptions - no matter what emergency. It isn't worth it for them to spend time making up one missed hour for me when there are thousands of people to train. Only one person is qualified to do the training and it's live - you can't just watch a video or ask someone what they said. They have this policy because they can't start making up training hours for people with extenuating circumstances or there is more work for them and no end to making up hours.

Do I have any options here or are they allowed to do this?
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pesek zman




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Oct 27 2017, 8:39 am
not ok. I'm so sorry
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Shoshana37




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Oct 27 2017, 8:42 am
Go to the hire up go to their Human Resources and explain your situation they are not allowed to do that they must excuse you for religious reasons. Speak with your future supervisor as well they must do something.
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MagentaYenta




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Oct 27 2017, 8:53 am
Ok I have a question or two. Is the training a condition of employment? (It sounds as if it is.) Are you actually an employee of the company while training?

If the accommodation would cause more than a minimal burden on the company it could be denied. If for instance hundreds of peoples training would have to be changed to accommodate you. Or if they had to specially arrange training facilities, materials and instructors to accommodate your training.

We had a similar situation locally with a call center. The person was a Messianic Xtian. The individual lost because the call center would have to substantially alter their training program to accommodate the potential employee.
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amother
Chocolate


 

Post Fri, Oct 27 2017, 9:03 am
MagentaYenta wrote:
Or if they had to specially arrange training facilities, materials and instructors to accommodate your training.


They would have to train me individually for that 1.5 hours as it builds on to the next thing. It can only be done by the training person who is very busy and well-paid. No one else can teach me what is needed - not my supervisor or anyone else at the training. I asked about that. But it doesn't seem fair still. There is really nothing I can do if it is too much of a hardship for them to arrange?

Yes, I am an employee during training. You are officially hired before and you are paid for training. There are no tests to pass - it is not conditional on learning the training but you do need to be there.
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Rutabaga




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Oct 27 2017, 9:06 am
Can you postpone training until the summer when Shabbos starts much later?
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MagentaYenta




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Oct 27 2017, 9:11 am
amother wrote:
They would have to train me individually for that 1.5 hours as it builds on to the next thing. It can only be done by the training person who is very busy and well-paid. No one else can teach me what is needed - not my supervisor or anyone else at the training. I asked about that. But it doesn't seem fair still. There is really nothing I can do if it is too much of a hardship for them to arrange?

Yes, I am an employee during training. You are officially hired before and you are paid for training. There are no tests to pass - it is not conditional on learning the training but you do need to be there.


Simply because I mentioned a situation local to me doesn't mean that you shouldn't contact the EEOC and get their opinion. You should also check to see if there are any state or local agencies that are responsible for fair employment practices. You will have to file with the EEOC to get their determination. I have no idea how local agencies would deal with the issue.

It sounds like the employer would not have a difficult time showing that the accommodation would be an undue hardship to the employer.

ETA: This is not legal advice, I've had some experience dealing with the EEOC.
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SixOfWands




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Oct 27 2017, 9:13 am
amother wrote:
They would have to train me individually for that 1.5 hours as it builds on to the next thing. It can only be done by the training person who is very busy and well-paid. No one else can teach me what is needed - not my supervisor or anyone else at the training. I asked about that. But it doesn't seem fair still. There is really nothing I can do if it is too much of a hardship for them to arrange?

Yes, I am an employee during training. You are officially hired before and you are paid for training. There are no tests to pass - it is not conditional on learning the training but you do need to be there.


Well, they could start an hour earlier on Friday (and I'm sure many people would like to leave before 7 to start the weekend).

Or they could tape the last hour and a half for you.

Or if the training is held in a hotel, or within walking distance to a hotel or a place you could stay for Shabbat, you could ask a rabbi about staying until the end, even if it goes into Shabbat, so long as you're not using electronics, then being out for the one Shabbat.
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MiracleMama




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Oct 27 2017, 9:43 am
Rutabaga wrote:
Can you postpone training until the summer when Shabbos starts much later?


We're in October. How is that going to work?
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amother
Brunette


 

Post Fri, Oct 27 2017, 11:00 am
I've had an issue with leaving early on Friday from public school. I know it's not exactly your situation but what helped was calling the legal department at Agudath Israel of America. They are qualified to answer whether this issue you face falls under religious issues that require accommodation by the employer. Furthermore, they can put all the legal jargon and relevant cases that have been previously litigated, in a letter to you. You may then choose to give that letter to the higher ups. The letter was worded to reflect that I reached out to Agudah for help. I believe the lawyer on staff,Mordechai Biser, assisted me.
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amother
Saddlebrown


 

Post Fri, Oct 27 2017, 11:21 am
Difficult. My approach would be to consider (with rabbinic guidance if needed) if there is any way to be there.

As an aside - its completely absurd that no one that the trainer has previously trained is permitted to train you. Absurd to the point of it makes it seem like the training itself has no value.
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debsey




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Oct 27 2017, 11:25 am
Contact Agudas Yisroel of America - they do this type of advocacy all the time. You do have rights. Often, just their reach-out can resolve the situation.
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marina




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Oct 27 2017, 2:09 pm
I recommend you speak to an attorney, the EEOC, or /and the state version of the EEOC in your state. It seems like your requested accommodation is reasonable because it is only once for 1.5 hours.

But I am not an attorney licensed in your state and I am not your attorney so the above is not legal advice.
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notshanarishona




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Oct 27 2017, 2:24 pm
Did u agree to the hours of the training before you were hired?
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Petra




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Oct 27 2017, 3:15 pm
I can't imagine a company is successful if every second of pre-job training is required and there is literally only one single person qualified to train. What if the trainer is sick?
How does a company work like that exactly? They need to diversify their personnel.

Is the training recorded by chance? Is the training even amendable to video recording?
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gribzoid




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Oct 28 2017, 8:13 am
Are you already hired? In which case they can't let you go because you cannot stay until 7 PM due to religious reasons. However, it is different if they are telling you during the interview process that it is a requirement to be there until 7 on Fridays. DH knew of a CPA firm that told all candidates that working on Saturday was required during tax season and the candidate could then make their own decision about whether or not the job was right for them.
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