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Forum -> Household Management -> Cleaning & Laundry
Is cleaning help a necessity or luxury
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happyone




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Nov 03 2017, 4:19 am
Necessity for me. Period. End of story . No excuses needed.
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saw50st8




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Nov 03 2017, 4:48 am
amother wrote:
Is indoor plumbing a luxury? I'm sure that back then when some had and others didn't this same debate might have taken place. Now days when everyone has indoor plumbing it's obviously not a luxury.
Same thing with cleaning help. If you grew up like I did with cleaning help and have always had it, it becomes a necessity. My in laws who hardly ever had cleaning help? Luxury.


Not many people live close enough to a clean water source to live nowadays without indoor plumbing. Now if you said electricity, I would possibly agree.

Just because you are used to something, doesn't make it a necessity. It makes it a harder luxury to give up. We gave up our gardener (even though I grew up with one and we both work full time) because $1500/year is expensive. So even though we don't have much time for our lawn and it's not as nice as when we had a gardener, we need the money.
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amother
Khaki


 

Post Fri, Nov 03 2017, 4:56 am
amother wrote:
I'm glad she has help. Really, truly. It sounds like the best thing for her circumstances. If the husband were working full time, she might not need to work so many hours (as they are managing now) and therefore would not need so much help.

Taking men out of the labor force is a lifestyle decision that comes with consequences, one of which is an increased need for household help because the women who might otherwise have time and energy for cleaning are otherwise occupied. Is that such a revelation?


Or if he stopped learning, continued working part time for the business, he would have the time spent on those 3 sedarim to deal with housekeeping so Debsey could still maintain her business.

I don't understand why this is controversial. Just because you choose to spend money on something that you value, doesn't mean it isn't a luxury or that spending the money is wrong. We all have luxuries in our lives and we choose differently. No one I know is living with 2 pairs of underwear and doing laundry in the river while eating rice and beans 3X a day.

Why is it so hard for people to admit they spend money on luxuries? We are not puritans. Enjoy your life!

Amother with the nanny and the cleaning help who doesn't work - baruch hashem! Enjoy! Live life to the fullest. Don't let people get you down.
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lavenderchimes




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Nov 03 2017, 5:06 am
LittleDucky wrote:
I dont think it is a necessity in the same way food, basic clothing, shelter and even a couple of books/toys for kids are.
I probably wouldnt go as far as some PP who said they would give tzeddakah money for it. But I have other tzeddakah priorities- like my underfunded local Tomchei... There are people who cant get on their lists who need to. I do say cleaning help is a life changer and if I could I would want it once or twice a week at least.
I think we need to stop putting so much pressure on ourselves as a society- to have perfectly laundered and matching clothes (to each other, obviously your shirt should match your skirt), multiple courses every meal on Shabbos, fancy cookbook dinners every weeknight, perfect open house worthy homes every day, as well as have time to ourselves! I try to do everything as much as I can but I don't go crazy that my floor might have crumbs and I have clutter piles. There are only 24 hours in a day and sleep comes before a lot of these!


This. Whether or not cleaning help is a neccesity or a luxury depends on who you're asking. But surely less people would see it as a neccesity if there weren't so much pressure to have a perfect, spotless home at all times. I have also noticed that a lot of parents don't give their kids chores -- I had a LOT of household duties as a child. I cleaned the bathroom every week, hung, took down, and folded laundry (no dryer,) did the dishes on a rotating schedule, and (when I got older) cooked dinner once a week.

Nevertheless, if someone feels that they absolutely need cleaning help, it is not our place to judge.
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smileyfaces




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Nov 03 2017, 5:12 am
For me it’s a luxury. I’m a SAHM, why can’t I clean my own house?
Ps I’m thrilled to do it and I don’t complain about it.
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Ema of 5




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Nov 03 2017, 6:03 am
amother wrote:
Or if he stopped learning, continued working part time for the business, he would have the time spent on those 3 sedarim to deal with housekeeping so Debsey could still maintain her business.

I don't understand why this is controversial. Just because you choose to spend money on something that you value, doesn't mean it isn't a luxury or that spending the money is wrong. We all have luxuries in our lives and we choose differently. No one I know is living with 2 pairs of underwear and doing laundry in the river while eating rice and beans 3X a day.

Why is it so hard for people to admit they spend money on luxuries? We are not puritans. Enjoy your life!

Amother with the nanny and the cleaning help who doesn't work - baruch hashem! Enjoy! Live life to the fullest. Don't let people get you down.

Why is it so hard to understand that it is NOT a luxury for everyone? Why does someone else, who doesn't live in my house or live my life, get to decide what is a luxury or a necessity for me? If someone says it is a necessity, no one else gets to come along and tell them it's not.
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amother
Jetblack


 

Post Fri, Nov 03 2017, 6:49 am
Why is everyone assuming that cleaning help= spotless house? If I didn't have cleaning help, my home wouldn't simply be "not perfect", it would be a biohazard zone. I'm not getting help because I have too high standards, I need the help because without it, I wouldn't be able to maintain basic standards.
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amother
Chocolate


 

Post Fri, Nov 03 2017, 7:05 am
I have four kids under the age of six. dh is out until eleven every workable hour besides shabbos. I dont work, I have two babies home. I'm also not the most organize person. I feel life would be so much better for dc and my sanity if we had cleaning help. I cant do it all. My oldest helps as much as a kid that age could she wipes mirrors and cabinets and dinet table otherwise it wouldn't get done. If my finacial situation changes it would be the first I would 'invest in'
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dancingqueen




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Nov 03 2017, 7:18 am
Cleaning help is absolutely a luxury. That doesn’t mean that you can’t have it if you can afford it. People pick and choose what they want to spend money on, obviously.

The one thing that rubs me the wrong way is the undertone in some of these posts is that frum women are too good for cleaning and it should if at all possible be outsourced to a non Jew of lower socioeconomic status.
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amother
Navy


 

Post Fri, Nov 03 2017, 7:29 am
As people have been pointing out, there is a difference between having cleaning help because someone has serious difficulty with cleaning, and having cleaning help to save time. There are some people who truly cannot maintain a clean and organized home (talking minimal standards here) without help. For them it is probably a necessity.

Personally, I am organized by nature and good at housekeeping. The only reason I wish I could afford cleaning help is because I am overwhelmed with too many responsibilites and doing the cleaning myself means even less sleep and more stress. But bottom line my house is clean and neat (again talking basic standards here, not spotless at all). But I know not everyone is capable of that and I try to be understating of people's limitations. Like, for example, some people can't understand why I don't wash and blow my sheitel myself instead of paying someone to do it. I wish they would understand that it is just not something I have the ability to do. I am not skilled with my hands in that way, even if someone teaches me, and I would likely ruin my sheitel.

Everyone has different limitations. Having help with something that you are not capable of (or are capable of only minimally and with extreme difficulty) should not be considered a luxury. Having help with something you are perfectly capable of but don't have time for or don't want to do is more of a luxury (though it may possibly be a necessity depending on the degree of overwhelm in the situation).
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Mommyg8




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Nov 03 2017, 7:33 am
Raisin wrote:

We all outsource certain things...who here buys ready made challa, pizza, cakes and cookies? I make most of that myself but I don't think people who buy it (but maybe spend more time cleaning their kitchens instead of hiring cleaning help) are spoiled. When you buy a challa you are paying someone else to make it.


Oh great! Not only do I have to feel guilty about my cleaning help, now I have to feel guilty about buying Challah for Shabbos, too!
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doodlesmom




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Nov 03 2017, 7:36 am
The fact is that it is not a necessity by definition.
But is it something you find necessary enough to take tzedakah for? That would probably answer the question as to how necessary you think it is.
I am very happy with my cleaning help, but would never take tzedaka to pay for one. I would chv take tzedaka if necessary for other standard luxuries-like Jewish education.
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Mommyg8




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Nov 03 2017, 7:38 am
I think a lot of things are necessities, but are not being offered by Tzedakah. For example, and I know that not everyone on this site agrees with this, but I think tuition falls under that category. I think tuition is a necessity. but even if I can't afford tuition, no-one is offering to pay for me. Come to think of it, no-one is offering to pay for my cleaning lady, either...
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SixOfWands




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Nov 03 2017, 7:59 am
Mommyg8 wrote:
Oh great! Not only do I have to feel guilty about my cleaning help, now I have to feel guilty about buying Challah for Shabbos, too!


You shouldn't feel guilty about having cleaning help, or about buying challah, or about owning a pretty necklace.

Maybe we should hearken back to Fox's post about English lacking words. You're thinking that "luxury" denotes "decadence." That luxury means a 14k toilet and Imelda Marcus shoe collection. It doesn't. It means things that aren't necessary, but still make our lives better and more enjoyable.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with luxuries. I indulge in them regularly. They make my life more enjoyable.

But there is something wrong with claiming that they are necessities. It skews our perception of the world, and of financial needs. It skews our perception of ourselves.

So instead of feeling guilty, feel good about it. Say "I'm lucky that I can afford to have cleaning help, and can afford to buy challah. Thank you, Hashem."
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amother
Taupe


 

Post Fri, Nov 03 2017, 8:20 am
I am the another with a nanny and a cleaning lady. I am very blessed. I think it all depends on your personal situation. I come from a very poor family and 20 years ago,I thought a cleaning lady was a luxury too. Today,I am blessed to have one because I can,not because its beneath me to clean,chas veshalom. I volunteer a lot locally. My neighbor has 2 cleaning ladies full time,so it's all relative
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debsey




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Nov 03 2017, 8:21 am
dancingqueen wrote:
Cleaning help is absolutely a luxury. That doesn’t mean that you can’t have it if you can afford it. People pick and choose what they want to spend money on, obviously.

The one thing that rubs me the wrong way is the undertone in some of these posts is that frum women are too good for cleaning and it should if at all possible be outsourced to a non Jew of lower socioeconomic status.
it's not about being "too good" it's about efficiency. If you are trained as a lawyer or a surgeon or a computer programmer, there's "added value" to your time. If you can spend an hour doing brain surgery or filing a brief and earn upwards of 500.00 an hour, it doesn't make fiscal sense to iron your own shirts as a way of saving money! (Assuming you'd turn down work that pays 500.00 an hour in order to iron shirts or mop floors.) It's education level and basic common sense, not some snobby value judgment.
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amother
Honeydew


 

Post Fri, Nov 03 2017, 8:40 am
Mommyg8 wrote:
Oh great! Not only do I have to feel guilty about my cleaning help, now I have to feel guilty about buying Challah for Shabbos, too!


You don’t have to feel guilty about it. Just because something is a luxury doesn’t mean it’s not important to you or that you shouldn’t have it. If it’s important to you , enhances your life, or makes your life much easier, by all means have it guilt free.

The fact is that not everybody has it. There are even middle class and people with money to spare that don’t hire cleaning help. What people should stop doing is talking about it like it’s an absolute given and a necessity because it presents you as ignorant and spoiled. Reading this, those of us who don’t have cleaning help might feel like ****. I havent heard of anyone calling social services on someone or holding anyone accountable for lack of hiring a cleaning lady. I am really surprised to see that people think that.
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saw50st8




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Nov 03 2017, 10:27 am
eema of 3 wrote:
Why is it so hard to understand that it is NOT a luxury for everyone? Why does someone else, who doesn't live in my house or live my life, get to decide what is a luxury or a necessity for me? If someone says it is a necessity, no one else gets to come along and tell them it's not.


Isn't this more of a theoretical discussion? Who's coming in to your home and telling you how to spend money??

We all prioritize our money for certain things. We all have luxuries of one sort or the other. I just philosophically don't understand how someone who doesn't have some sort of physical disability (or other issue) can call this a need, not a want.

Again, IT'S OK TO SPEND YOUR MONEY ON WANTS AND LUXURIES. There are also definitely levels of luxury. This isn't a private yacht with a captain. Enjoy your cleaning help. Why does it bother you if someone else thinks your cleaning help is a luxury you choose to spend your money on?
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sequoia




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Nov 03 2017, 10:31 am
Exactly. There is nothing wrong with luxuries if you can afford them. Diamond rings are also luxuries. You don’t need a diamond engagement ring to get married. Private tutors, organic/grass-fed meat, cleaning help - those are all luxuries THAT ARE GREAT TO HAVE!

But don’t be absurd and call them necessities on the level of water and air.
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SixOfWands




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Nov 03 2017, 10:36 am
debsey wrote:
it's not about being "too good" it's about efficiency. If you are trained as a lawyer or a surgeon or a computer programmer, there's "added value" to your time. If you can spend an hour doing brain surgery or filing a brief and earn upwards of 500.00 an hour, it doesn't make fiscal sense to iron your own shirts as a way of saving money! (Assuming you'd turn down work that pays 500.00 an hour in order to iron shirts or mop floors.) It's education level and basic common sense, not some snobby value judgment.


But that has nothing to do with whether or not its a luxury.

Its a luxury that some people may choose to indulge in based on a cost-benefit analysis.

If your hypothetical surgeon were unemployed and destitute for some reason, she would still need a place to live. She would still need clothing, and food. But she wouldn't need cleaning help. She'd do it herself.

Unless a person has a disability, cleaning help is not necessary.

There's no value judgment there. Surgeons worked hard to afford luxuries. Perhaps you do as well. I know that I do. But the fact that I can afford these luxuries, and that they make my life better, doesn't transform them into necessities.
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