Couples Meals | Imamother

Boca00

Sun, Nov 05 2017, 3:39 pm

amother wrote:

Seriously? Grasping at straws? Going to a move "alone", "Eating out just the two of you", etc.. "letter of the law". Again - I said follow the Torah guidelines, which include NOT putting yourself into that situation, and using standard precautions / fences (as previously mentioned) in other NORMAL human situations.

The Torah tells us NOT to put ourselves into the situation you described, but does give us advice how to behave in NORMAL human interaction states - I.e. workplaces, shared meals and so on. The Torah is not telling us to avoid sharing meals, and segregate ourselves completely.

Alone meaning not with your husband or your friend, but in a movie theater. Which halacha are you being over exactly? The same ones that some Rabbanim will extend to setting up other boundaries. Again, find me ONE community that segregates the genders completely, like you keep saying!

zaq

Sun, Nov 05 2017, 3:42 pm

NewbeeMom wrote:

Perhaps you don't understand the ramifications of calling people by their first names. At work, my boss always tells me to address clients by their first names. He says that it makes them feel like you are on their side... There is a lot of phsychology
behind calling someone by a first name. Proven and all.

I totally fisagree with your boss. First names are for friends, not clients, unless your relationship is of such long standing that you ARE friends. I call all my dh friends and friends’ dh by first name, but let me tell you, when a stranger calls up and asks for “zaq” or “zenobia”, I tell them “that’s MS Zaqarias to you.”

Using my first name does NOT make me feel that you are on my side. It feels smarmy. I feel invaded. You’re inventing a close personal relationship that is as phony as a three dollar bill. If you’re young enough to be my child, which nowadays is more and more likely, you’re being disrespectful; if you’re older, you’re being condescending. I’ll let you know when and IF I want to be on a first name basis.

But that’s in business. Im not going to call a man my age who is married to my bff Mr. Soandso unless I call her Mrs. Soandso.They’re a unit and have the sane status.

amother

Papaya

Sun, Nov 05 2017, 3:45 pm

I didn't read through the whole thread and am apologizing in advance if this was already said. We would be called a yeshivish family. We both work in right wing/yeshivish schools. It's not so black and white. If someone were to ask me if I have couples over for shabbos meals I'd probably say no but we do. When we were first married and living in Israel if we wouldn't of had couples over we would never of had company! So we chose carefully. We had like minded couples so no one was uncomfortable. Some of my friends preferred to have a few couples so that there wouldn't be any awkward situations (like if the wife was in the kitchen and friend's husband went to use the restroom... even though wife's friend can just escape to the kitchen... but whatever having more than one couple ensured this probably wouldn't happen). Some felt a few couples led to more of a chit chatty "too friendly" kind of environment. We didn't care either way and felt that as long as everyone was on the same page we could enjoy our friends' company at Shabbos meals.
Sometimes we ended up with couples who weren't necessarily in the same page. New neighbor moves in and we extend invite and he's super friendly with me... well I know my place, act polite but not super friendly back and we don't have them again if it's not comfortable.
Once we moved back to the states and had family around we didn't feel the need to have friends over and stuck to family when we wanted to socialize
Now most of our social company is based on helping out friends. Friend had a hard week because one of her kids broke a leg of course invite! Friend going through a hard time and needs a break extend an invite.
Unless someone is surrounded by family donthey really not have any shabbos guests?

amother

Aqua

Sun, Nov 05 2017, 3:48 pm

Boca00 wrote:

You want me to start?

Satmar -Williamsburg, KJ,
Viznitz - Williamsburg, Monsey
Skver
Belz
Klausenberg
Pupa
etc.....

And the Torah guidelines say Yichud is assur, and you should not put yourself in a situation that can easily put you into that situation. That's the first basic fence - advised by the Torah. So again by following the Torah, I would never be in that situation. We did both agree earlier that basic/standard precautions and fences are necessary. It is the extra stringencies and extra boundaries that we were discussing. And I do think that we can both agree that your scenario falls into an initial fence (not a stringency) and is advised against by the Torah.

amother

Aqua

Sun, Nov 05 2017, 3:51 pm

zaq wrote:

I believe this is generational and strictly personal. Everyone is entitled to their own feelings and interpretations on this, but you will see the older generation more in line with your thinking and the younger generation more in line with being on first-name basis.

Boca00

Sun, Nov 05 2017, 3:52 pm

amother wrote:

Ok if you say so. I really don't know any Chassidim IRL. But where does yeshivish come into this?

So we're basically both going to agree that you need more fences than yichud and negia, but we're going to disagree on how many and which fences are necessary.

Anyway, you have a lot of intelligent points, I just wish you would say them under your screen name!

MagentaYenta

Sun, Nov 05 2017, 3:56 pm

amother wrote:

I definitely agree with zaq here and yea, we're both part of the 'older' generation. Frankly you would get some odd looks in my community if you used the Mr. and Mrs designations. Here in the 21st century both women and men have identities that aren't dependent on their marital status. I think it's rather superficial of someone to feel it's disrespectful to be addressed by their first name when it comes to friends and social situations. It is certainly going to be your prerogative to inform people of how you prefer to be addressed.

amother

Aqua

Sun, Nov 05 2017, 3:58 pm

Boca00 wrote:

I'm from a chassidish community, so I didn't want to point out specific yeshivish communities without being 100% certain. But the yeshivish communities have slowly been adopting many Chassidish ways as of late, and based on other (yeshivish) posters, I see that its hold true in some of their communities already too.

Yes, we both agree that basic and standard fences need to be put in place (just like catching a child thats about to fall), but we seem to disagree on the number and style of fences that need to be put in place. My opinion is that we need to stop when we begin to stifle growth. Am I wrong in thinking that your opinion is rather to avoid transgression that worry about growth?

I've been pretty vocal about my opinions with family and friends, and I prefer to keep my screen name anonymous so hence the anonymity.

Boca00

Sun, Nov 05 2017, 3:59 pm

MagentaYenta wrote:

Just want to point out that Mr. isn't dependant on marital status, and neither is Ms.

zaq

Sun, Nov 05 2017, 4:07 pm

amother wrote:

100%. Which is why, instead of ASSUMING that I will appreciate your breezy informality, you’d do much better starting with Ms. Zaqarias and adking me how I woukd like to be addressed. If I say “Please call me Zaq,” go ahead. If I say “Ms. Zaqarias will do”, you know what to do.

Boca00

Sun, Nov 05 2017, 4:11 pm

amother wrote:

Fine, I get that you want anonymity.

Personally, I feel that living in the real world while keeping some boundaries in place is a way to grow and also avoid transgression. I know you feel the same way, it's the details we won't agree on.

And I don't know if you consider yourself balebatish or MO or something else, but I frequent those shuls as well ever since I was a little girl and I have absolutely nothing against these (or other) communities. I respect that you have other boundaries and I expect you to respect mine.

amother

Aqua

Sun, Nov 05 2017, 4:25 pm

Boca00 wrote:

And I don't know if you consider yourself balebatish or MO or something else, but I frequent those shuls as well ever since I was a little girl and I have absolutely nothing against these (or other) communities. I respect that you have other boundaries and I expect you to respect mine.

I absolutely respect every single person's boundaries. For my personal self, I do feel its ok discussing and questioning actions done by different communities, but as a whole and not on individual basis. It allows me to do some introspection and see where I personally stand on issues. But never on individual basis. When I see or meet any individual, I absolutely respect and honor their boundaries and their choices. It is not for me to decide what's best for them.

Boca00

Sun, Nov 05 2017, 4:31 pm

amother wrote:

100% agree. Then we can still be friends Wink

Boca00

Sun, Nov 05 2017, 5:02 pm

moonstone wrote:

That sounds like such a strange practice, I literally can't wrap my head around it. I realize we live in completely different worlds, but the idea of calling my friends' husbands Mr. Whatever...

Lol and living in Planet Yeshivish, I would be uncomfortable addressing my friend's husband as Moish. To each their own.