"Converting" others to alternative treatments

amother

Cerulean

Wed, Nov 08 2017, 11:33 am

I'm putting this in this forum instead of controversial topics because first of all it is bad manners! And secondly I want to remain anonymous because I've spoken about this a lot irl.

I don't understand why people who believe in alternate medicine and treatments feel the need to convert everyone else for want of a better word.

When a very close family member was battling aggressive brain cancer I can't tell you how many people told us if you just try cannabis oil or pills he/she will be cured or the macrobiotic diet cures cancer etc etc. even now that this family member has succumbed to this horrible disease people still tell my family these things!

Listen, you want to believe in this stuff, go ahead. Personally I don't. But if you do that's lovely - enjoy. And if someone has cancer Chas V'shalom and wants to try it - I wish them only the very best and truly hope it helps them! But pls pls pls people - have some compassion! Keep your theories and ideas to yourself- don't tell me my dear family member should have simply changed his/her diet and the extremely malignant tumor that ended his/her life would disappear. Just use some sensitivity pls!

MagentaYenta

Wed, Nov 08 2017, 12:36 pm

Point of information.

American, Israeli and European trials have shown that certain CBDs present in Cannabis do shrink cancer tumors. Commercially available cannabinoids such as dronabinol and nabilone have been approved for use in the treatment of certain cancers here in the US and abroad.

'Alternative' therapies is a very broad brush and in this case it is in error. These therapies and the studies behind them are published on the NIH NCI site. (BTW this site has a wealth of information on what were considered 'alternative' therapies 10 years ago but now are part of standard treatment protocols.

amother

Crimson

Wed, Nov 08 2017, 12:47 pm

There are many things I love about "natural" living, but alternative healing is rarely one of them.

Juicing diets, chiropractic manipulation, and powerful herbs definitely can affect the body positively.

The problem is when alternative practitioners think they know everything about the way the body functions -- or worse, just pretend to, even when they know they don't! -- and mislead people.

So many alternative practitioners are just charlatans out there, making money off of desperate people. Do you know how many skin care creams called "herbal" are packed with unlabeled steroids and mercury?

Not everyone is trustworthy and not every form of alternative medicine has methods that can be proven. I no longer let people dupe me. You want me to believe that your method works? Show me the science behind it.

Plant-based healing has a science behind it -- but show me what that is.

HK has NO science behind it. So leave me alone.

And so often people attribute healing to alternative remedies when it actually is coincidence.

I know a woman that said she gave her child enemas because she was told asthma comes from the gut having too many toxins. He eventually outgrew his asthma...

The truth: Asthma is historically a childhood disease. As long as a pseudo-asthma doesn't develop through cortisone addiction, children outgrow asthma! No enemas needed...

lavenderchimes

Wed, Nov 08 2017, 12:50 pm

MagentaYenta wrote:

This. OP, as someone who has suffered a variety of very painful and difficult maladies, I very much udnerstand your frustration with people being pushy and making wacky suggestions. But I also think it's important to acknowledge proven facts about the helpfulness (if not curative properties) of SOME alternative treatments, ie. cannabis, ehich is proven to ease pain, nausea, etc. in many illnesses. It seems a little unfair to get upset with people for giving you information -- although it is VERY fair to get upset with people who literally won't let things go.

southernbubby

Wed, Nov 08 2017, 12:54 pm

I have also seen people suggest segulas (many of which cost money) to people who have serious and complex illnesses. It suggests that these people don't know how to ask for this help if they do want it and it belittles the serious nature of the illness.

I have also seen people offer ridiculous alternatives that would have zero chance of killing off cancer or curing anything more serious than a headache. When people are going through a crisis, usually unasked for advice is unwanted, unhelpful, and dangerous. Either offer real help such as meals, transportation, taking a shift staying with the patient, etc. or offer something spiritual such as tehillim or tzedukah in merit of a recovery.

amother

Cerulean

Wed, Nov 08 2017, 1:08 pm

amother wrote:

Lavendarchimes, I think OP is getting upset with people because they are trying to guilt her into believing that it is her fault for not doing the alternative treatments.

Someone with sechel will never tell a mourning person that they should have done things differently.

Op here. Exactly- like I said you believe it - that's great. IyH I bench you that you should never personally need to look into it and it's all theoretical. My point is my family member was under the care of some of the best doctors in the field. Unfortunately there is no cure. Just don't go around telling someone who is sick that they should try something cuz it will aolv everything. If no one asked your opinion don't volunteer it just offer sympathy and prayers. IMO

amother

Cerulean

Wed, Nov 08 2017, 1:14 pm

MagentaYenta wrote:

first of all I'm not arguing that it can be helpful with certain cancers. Not GBM tho. So it's irrelevant. And even if it would be - if no one asked your opinion on the subject don't volunteer it is all I'm saying.

amother

Cerulean

Wed, Nov 08 2017, 1:18 pm

amother wrote:

'Alternative' is very subjuctive. For people like myself who has been through the 'conventional' route only to further worsen my symptoms, having takin the 'alternative' route with much success BH, , this is now first base. If you want scientific studies green med info is a great site. Otherwise people are just sharing what has worked for them. And you can't argue with that.
I'm sorry people r still telling u however, if u be made it clear that u don't want to hear it.

I'm so happy alternative methods worked for you. I truly am. However not one person who was spouting all this "helpful advice" actually went through it. They either read about it or are so anamoured of everything natural and against conventional methods that they need to spread it about. For some reason some people read an article or two and think they know everything about subject more than the surgeons and oncologists who deal with this every day for years and years.

If ONE person who actually went through it and was helped directly told me about this I still wouldn't agree but I wouldn't be so upset. It's the lay people who think they know everything and must be smarter than drs and researchers and feel the need to get everyone to agree with them that upsets me. To them I say MYOB and be sensitive.

imasinger

Wed, Nov 08 2017, 1:21 pm

I will take it a step further and say this issue has absolutely nothing to do with whether a treatment or approach is conventional or unconventional.

I'm sure there are plenty of people who are trying unconventional methods who have busybodies coming up to them and telling them that salvation lies in a more traditional path.

In other places, this is known as Mommy Wars, or the Great Vaccine Debate.

Any time someone comes on like they have all the answers, and don't respect your right to differ, it's a problem.

It's particularly painful when a life is fragile.

Hugs, OP. Don't let the pushy know-it-alls get you down.

southernbubby

Wed, Nov 08 2017, 2:06 pm

amother wrote:

The person that the OP was referring to had an aggressive malignancy in the brain. An article in the Nov 1, 2017, Mishpacha Magazine, titled, Medical or Magical, warns against trying to cure cancer with alternative medicine. It did state that alternative medicine is useful for nuisance ailments but the gist of the article was that some alternative treatments involve kishuf or avodah zarah and should be entirely avoided or a rav should be consulted before trying them. Some alternative treatments are a waste of money but are otherwise harmless. And some really do help.

amother

Jetblack

Wed, Nov 08 2017, 2:30 pm

I am very much into alternative healing and treatments. I'm not looking for converts though and I'm not a pushy person.

BUT...

If a person believes in something - no matter how crazy it might sound - should they never even mention it at all?

Let's say I believe drinking green tea can cure diabetes. (I don't. I'm just saying it now). And my good friend was just diagnosed with diabetes. Should I say nothing just because the treatment I believe in is not mainstream? What kind of friend does that make me?

Again, I'm not pushy. I'd likely ask, "are you open to trying any alternative approaches?" before giving any suggestions and if the answer is no, I stop immediately.

amother

Ivory

Wed, Nov 08 2017, 2:40 pm

southernbubby wrote:

I think there are two separate topics in this thread. As far as medicine, I don't really rely on Mishpacha magazine. It's true some alternative treatmenta can be helpful, harmless or harmful as are conventional medical treatments. We should have medical choice in this country.
But I think op's post is really about people who are being pushy and insensitive to her.

amother

Mint

Wed, Nov 08 2017, 3:12 pm

amother wrote:

A few thoughts as I read your post:

1. It's basic human etiquette to honor another person's path. Whether allopathic or not. I have people telling me, ''You MUST get it surgically removed!!!!'' So this form of disrespect seems to flow in both directions. I lean toward holistic, yet have strongly supported friends and even my own children who have chosen to go the allopathic route.

2. Natural/alternative/holistic is often misunderstood. Many people erroneously believe it to mean that we follow a certain protocol or naturopath's recommendations. Though many people do this, this is not what is truly meant by natural/holistic.

3. What is meant by natural/holistic has more to do with ''laws of nature'' than with adhering to one guru's philosophy and protocol. Can't say this enough times. Holistic IS customized, so any one-size-fits all is NOT holistic. Read the book by Dr. Lawrence Leshan, The Mechanic and the Gardener. He explains it well. He's in his late nineties and has successfully midwived many people from cancer to wellness. I have personally worked with him. He does NOTTTTTT advocate for a one-size-fits-all approach, rather he supports each person in figuring out their own unique personalized path.

4. What is meant by natural/holistic has all to do with inner guidance and intuition. Most of us who live in civilized societies have lost touch with intuitive eating, intuitive sleeping, intuitive relations, intuitive lots of things. If I go to a naturopath and he tells me to take cannabis oil, that is NOT considered holistic healing. If, on the other hand, I get an intuition in the form of a still quiet voice deep within me that says, ''hm, cannabis oil is what is needed now''; that might qualify as holistic. Can you see the difference. I, for one, have never had an intuition to turn to cannabis for conditions that ''studies show'' cannabis has been very helpful. I couldn't care less what studies say, my guiding compass is MY intuition, not anyone else's.

Gotta go to the kids, may come back later.

zaq

Wed, Nov 08 2017, 3:19 pm

Proponents of alternative therapies are no different from new BTs, born-again Christians lehavdil, and Weight Watchers: flush with enthusiasm for their new way of life, they wish to convert the whole world to it. They mean well.

There’s also a element of magical thinking: by advising you about juice diets or positive thinking or hanging upside down, they’re trying to reassure themselves that they are safe. It’s the same reason people try to weasel out details of accidents and crimes: by finding out some detail that doesn’t apply to them, they persuade themselves that “it can’t happen to me because he was driving a small car and I drive a big one, or it can’t happen to me because he ate red meat and I don’t, or it can’t happen to me because she took the bus alone after dark and I would never.”

In life you have to know what you can change and what you must ignore. Well-meaning busybodies are everywhere and they are very resistant to change. Ignoring them is the most you can do.