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Forum -> Yom Tov / Holidays -> Shabbos, Rosh Chodesh, Fast Days, and other Days of Note
Shabbos meals - fish and meat.
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Mommyg8




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Nov 13 2017, 8:43 am
amother wrote:
Right. So my grandmother, who grew up in Poland incredibly poor, told me that they always had fish and chicken. But it was a tiny piece of gefilte fish and one small chicken was shared amongst her family with 6 kids. She was next to youngest so her portion was one wing. The filled up on potatoes.
Today’s standards how can I serve anyone a tiny piece of gefilte fish and tiny piece of chicken and feel it’s lekovod shabbos when we eat more and better during the week? So all the salads and dips and fancy sides. But then because you have all those fantastic extras, you start to feel like who wants meat and fish? Very hard to find the right balance. At least for me.
So that’s what I’m trying to figure out. I legitimately don’t know what’s necessary.


Ok, so my family is still stuck back in Poland...

Can you tell me what you make that makes things so fancy? I would love to upgrade my seudos!
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moonstone




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Nov 13 2017, 8:55 am
Once in a while we'll have bagels, cream cheese, quiches, etc for shabbat lunch and we always say how much we enjoy it. Nice change from chicken or meat every week. Once in a while I'll cook a big fillet of salmon instead of chicken or meat.
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iyar




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Nov 13 2017, 9:35 am
The traditional menu doesn't have to turn into a diet disaster and leave us with indigestion. I think it's the dips and starchy salads that are making us not be able to eat the traditional menu. People eat the dips with tons of challa- I guess that's how they're meant to be eaten- and fill themselves up with too many carbs. Not to mention all the carbs in the salad dressings; the delicious salads have huge amounts of sugar in their dressing, or if they're trying to be "healthy"- honey. The necessary kezayis of challa is not a problem for most healthy people if we don't pile on these other carbs.
We'd actually be better off with a small piece of grilled fish (not drowned in teriyaki sauce), clear chicken broth, and a small piece of lean meat or chicken (not slathered in duck sauce, bbq sauce, ketchup and/or cranberry sauce) with a side of vegetables baked with a little olive oil and seasoning, or a leafy salad. I haven't found a source that says it's mandatory to eat large portions of kugel(s), and we've covered the bassar ve'dagim (with apologies to the amother craving the swan and quail). Our guests (and most of my family) will leave the table less stuffed, more healthy, and a lot less happy.
It's those last two little words that are the problem.
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miami85




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Nov 13 2017, 10:10 am
I forget if there's a source for fish by Friday night, but I dont' think there is one for Shabbos day, but there IS one for Shalosh seudos--I think having to do with seudas l'vyasan, so we try to have fish by Shalosh seudos if we dont have enough for all meals.
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Mommyg8




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Nov 13 2017, 10:13 am
miami85 wrote:
I forget if there's a source for fish by Friday night, but I dont' think there is one for Shabbos day, but there IS one for Shalosh seudos--I think having to do with seudas l'vyasan, so we try to have fish by Shalosh seudos if we dont have enough for all meals.


Ha'ochel dag b'yom dag... tatzil mi'dag... does anyone know the source to this?
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imasoftov




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Nov 13 2017, 10:52 am
Mommyg8 wrote:
Ha'ochel dag b'yom dag... tatzil mi'dag... does anyone know the source to this?

Rabbi Yaakov Raccah, who lived in Tripoli in the 19th century CE.
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Mommyg8




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Nov 13 2017, 10:53 am
imasoftov wrote:
Rabbi Yaakov Raccah, who lived in Tripoli in the 19th century CE.


So it's not a chazal? Shucks.

Anyway, thank you imasoftov, for finding the source.
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out-of-towner




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Nov 13 2017, 11:11 am
Mommy8, are you Chassidus? IME Chassdim have a very Kavuah Shabbos meal. A lot of it is actually symbolic and Kabbalistic, think the same idea as the Simanim on Rosh Hashanah. I didn't grow up Chassidish so I don't do many of them, but when we go to our Chassidish relatives, the Shabbos meals are very predictable. Good, but predictable.

That said, DH insists on fish at both meals, and some kind of hot soup Friday night. What I have done when I wanted a change was to serve chicken soup as a first course, and then make salmon as a main (very expensive here so it's a real treat). Unconventional but yummy!
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tichellady




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Nov 13 2017, 11:22 am
Just to be clear, I’m perfectly happy to have a big meal of meat and fish and whatever else that someone else prepared. But since I’m the one preparing it and I don’t have endless energy or time, I keep I­t­ simple. I also make the foods that we enjoy, not the foods that we are supposed to enjoy.
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Mommyg8




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Nov 13 2017, 11:33 am
out-of-towner wrote:
Mommy8, are you Chassidus? IME Chassdim have a very Kavuah Shabbos meal. A lot of it is actually symbolic and Kabbalistic, think the same idea as the Simanim on Rosh Hashanah. I didn't grow up Chassidish so I don't do many of them, but when we go to our Chassidish relatives, the Shabbos meals are very predictable. Good, but predictable.

That said, DH insists on fish at both meals, and some kind of hot soup Friday night. What I have done when I wanted a change was to serve chicken soup as a first course, and then make salmon as a main (very expensive here so it's a real treat). Unconventional but yummy!


No, we're not Chassidish, but even us old time Litvaks have some minhagim Smile ! We have a very predictable Shabbos meal, you could probably put us right back in Poland and we would fit right in!

We just don't eat farfel, and we don't cut the onions by the table... so we're not Chassidish!
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Ruchel




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Nov 13 2017, 11:47 am
"Poland"... There were the dirt poor up to the highest bourgeoisie.
My grandfather had daily meat.
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MagentaYenta




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Nov 13 2017, 1:21 pm
I did not grow up with elaborate shabbos meals. My grandparents on both sides (Polish and Ukrainian) were obviously more than dirt poor meat was infrequent and stretched to soups or stews.

When I had a large family at home it was KISS, keep it simple stupid. Roast chicken, veggies and salad, perhaps a pasta and veg dish for the vegetarians. Challah (that didn't take much more than a pinch of sugar) and a simple sundried tomato schmear (bruschetta).

If we had soup for dinner there was a salad or some vegetarian stuffed hard squash. Cold fish (salmon) would be lunch for the next day.

Now I do shabbos with my DDs most of the time. They alternate homes and have interesting guests. They cook simple meals and weren't raised with teriyaki soaked protein or anything in duck sauce. This week we will have roast salmon, there will be home made mayo, broiled asparagus and string beans, sundried tomato schmear for the challah, a big salad and brussels sprouts slaw (with an evoo dressing). Fruit and nuts later as desert. Saturday lunch will be vegetarian split pea soup, challah, sprouts slaw, and miso glazed slices of hard squash and a big salad. Desert will be apple pie with cheddar cheese.

I think the rule of thumb I use is the basic mantra of some TV chefs, fresh and local simply cooked. If its fresh and local we'll figure out a decent dinner that doesn't require hours of prep.
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amother
Navy


 

Post Mon, Nov 13 2017, 1:32 pm
Mommyg8 wrote:
Ok, so my family is still stuck back in Poland...

Can you tell me what you make that makes things so fancy? I would love to upgrade my seudos!


I guess "fancy" is relative. (Fancy compared to here's your piece of gefilte fish and here is your bowl of cholent). But for example, this is what I served on Shabbos for lucnh:

A kid-friendly typical garden salad: romaine, cukes, tomatoes, onion, carrot & lemon dressing
A roasted veggie salad: Roasted mushrooms, eggplant, red bell peppers and onions over a bed of arugula and baby spinach with honey-sesame dressing
Pasta Salad: Bowties with sun-dried tomatoes, roasted garlic and homemade pesto
BBQ Salmon: I make an entire side of salmon so the portions are generous
Techina
Kimchi

That was the first course. I served only cholent for the 2nd course. Honestly, nobody wanted it. Everyone filled up and enjoyed the first course. So everyone just took a tiny spoonful of cholent and picked at it (DH and I feeling obligated because it was shabbos and our guests probably feeling obligated to not make me feel bad).

So I was sitting by the table thinking what it would be like to have gone straight to dessert and not bothered with the cholent. I think everyone would prefer this. But at the same time it would feel weird.
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tichellady




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Nov 13 2017, 1:36 pm
amother wrote:
I guess "fancy" is relative. (Fancy compared to here's your piece of gefilte fish and here is your bowl of cholent). But for example, this is what I served on Shabbos for lucnh:

A kid-friendly typical garden salad: romaine, cukes, tomatoes, onion, carrot & lemon dressing
A roasted veggie salad: Roasted mushrooms, eggplant, red bell peppers and onions over a bed of arugula and baby spinach with honey-sesame dressing
Pasta Salad: Bowties with sun-dried tomatoes, roasted garlic and homemade pesto
BBQ Salmon: I make an entire side of salmon so the portions are generous
Techina
Kimchi

That was the first course. I served only cholent for the 2nd course. Honestly, nobody wanted it. Everyone filled up and enjoyed the first course. So everyone just took a tiny spoonful of cholent and picked at it (DH and I feeling obligated because it was shabbos and our guests probably feeling obligated to not make me feel bad).

So I was sitting by the table thinking what it would be like to have gone straight to dessert and not bothered with the cholent. I think everyone would prefer this. But at the same time it would feel weird.


You could also make smaller pieces of Salmon and skip the pasta salad if you still want to serve cholent, or do cholent first as an appetizer
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Mommyg8




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Nov 13 2017, 2:21 pm
I generally make very few starchy sides, even on Yom Tov. I feel that the Challah is more than enough starch...
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icebreaker




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Nov 13 2017, 4:08 pm
My kids plan the Shabbos meals so usually it's either, or. Rarely both fish and meat.
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amother
Amber


 

Post Mon, Nov 13 2017, 4:13 pm
IMHO it's very traditional to do both for both meals.
I always make fish 4 salads, NON - STARCHY, meat or chicken and 2 sides, usually 2 veggies.
If it's just DH and I, I make the same much smaller portions.
We eat the leftovers on Sunday, sometimes Monday lunch if there any left.
If I have guests I will usually make both chicken and meat the 2 veggies and add a bowl of rice, in case someone "needs" a carb.

I wouldn't say we don't need to lose some weight, bud we are definitely not obese, at most need to lose 20lbs. each
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cbg




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Nov 13 2017, 4:23 pm
tichellady wrote:
You could also make smaller pieces of Salmon and skip the pasta salad if you still want to serve cholent, or do cholent first as an appetizer


I once went to someone's house that served a hot meat as the appetizer, and then served fish and salads as the main. They served a mini stuffed globe zucchini (zucchini that is round like a bowl) plated.
Then they had a huge buffet that had teriyaki salmon, breaded fish fingers, lox, and then 5 or 6 different salads/sides. I really enjoyed this because I love creative salads. Dessert was a huge fruit platter, and brownies/cookie platter mix.
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amother
Coral


 

Post Mon, Nov 13 2017, 4:37 pm
cbg wrote:
I once went to someone's house that served a hot meat as the appetizer, and then served fish and salads as the main. They served a mini stuffed globe zucchini (zucchini that is round like a bowl) plated.
Then they had a huge buffet that had teriyaki salmon, breaded fish fingers, lox, and then 5 or 6 different salads/sides. I really enjoyed this because I love creative salads. Dessert was a huge fruit platter, and brownies/cookie platter mix.

Where can I find globe zucchini in Brooklyn? I really dislike cooked peppers but love to stuff vegetables and this would work well.
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amother
Pewter


 

Post Tue, Nov 14 2017, 6:27 am
We're litvish/yeskish and our 'minhag' is to have fish and meat (well, chicken) Friday night and then we always have egg with fried onions and cholent by day. Any idea where the egg comes from?
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