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Forum -> Parenting our children -> Teenagers and Older children

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amother

Fri, Oct 19 2007, 10:04 am

Daughter's High School went on a trip lately, and daughter came home saying that girls were listening to Secular music on their Ipods on the bus. This is a very frum school. My daughter, since going to Sternberg, also listens to secular music (no other kids ever did before). She says a girl in her class asked her to copy a CD and bring it to school. Seems like quite a few girls in the class/grade are listening to this music. Of course, DH and I don't approve, and we're scared of the possibility that the school will find out and make one girl the scapegoat and get rid of her. We'd love for her to give up secular music, but that's a fantasy. We told her that if she gets caught by the school with s/t involving secular music, she loses computer time, period. What else can we do? We're scared a "goody goody" type will overhear and snitch, BUT we know that if we get tougher, she'll be MORE into it. It's a tightrope.

We need a King Solomon the Wise here, with creative, but serious advice.

What would Rabbi Horowitz reply?

amother

Fri, Oct 19 2007, 10:18 am

Why don't you pre-empt the problem, and approach the school administrators yourself. Tell them that there are girls who are listening to secular music, and your daughter is being influenced by them. You don't have to say what she is, or isn't doing, just that you have concerns. Ask them to please investigate, and address the problem.

chocolate moose

Fri, Oct 19 2007, 10:33 am

Can you influence her to listen to good secular music? Classical ?

amother

Fri, Oct 19 2007, 10:45 am

amother wrote:

I can't approach the school- they might say my daughter started and is influencing others and blame it all on her. I can't take that chance.

amother

Fri, Oct 19 2007, 10:46 am

chocolate moose wrote:

Can you influence her to listen to good secular music? Classical ?

No way, that's "old people's" music.

shoy18

Fri, Oct 19 2007, 10:51 am

why dont you just tell her she can not exchange music in class, if a girl wants a cd she can come over after school and pick it up.

chocolate moose

Fri, Oct 19 2007, 10:54 am

amother wrote:

chocolate moose wrote:

Can you influence her to listen to good secular music? Classical ?

No way, that's "old people's" music.

When I was a girl, we went every year to the orchestra. It's very nice to be exposed to all kinds.

amother

Fri, Oct 19 2007, 10:55 am

shoy18 wrote:

why dont you just tell her she can not exchange music in class, if a girl wants a cd she can come over after school and pick it up.

Why make rules that she'll break behind my back. At least she's talking about it, even though she is fully aware that we're upset. She didn't have to come out with it. I think it's sort of a good hing.

amother

Fri, Oct 19 2007, 11:29 am

Quote:

We told her that if she gets caught by the school with s/t involving secular music, she loses computer time, period.

So are you implying to her that the main problem here is getting caught?!?
Break the laws just dont let the police catch you? Rolling Eyes

If you think its wrong and its not allowed by the school, why are you trying to protect her?
I definitely understand your "mothers heart", but it seems that you are a bit afraid of her and she prob. senses it.

Speak to a good "mechanech"
Hatzlacha!

gold21

Fri, Oct 19 2007, 11:39 am

I dont think you necessarily have to make it a rule to not bring CDs to school. rather, explain to her what your concerns are. I think you should try to appeal to her mature and logical side. not in a chummy-chummy way, in a firm way that appeals to her intelligence.

amother

Fri, Oct 19 2007, 11:46 am

Fact:There is about a half of a percent chance that she'd give up secular music at this time, no matter who says what.

Fact: No one wants her getting kicked out of school.

I have to live w. reality. Nothing to do with fear.

Motek

Sat, Oct 20 2007, 10:28 pm

amother wrote:

My daughter, since going to Sternberg, also listens to secular music

Sorry to hear that she picked that up by going to a frum camp Sad

Quote:

What would Rabbi Horowitz reply?

why don't you ask him? he's always saying that parents contact him with questions

amother

Sat, Oct 20 2007, 10:37 pm

I emailed him. So far, no response.

cip

Sat, Oct 20 2007, 10:53 pm

if your asking stricktly how to keep her from getting caught by school, I would say to her "I'ts your choice how to exchange music with your friends but you would make your mother feel more relaxed if you only exchange music in a safe environment/off school grounds" and then leave it at that - don't bring up the topic again.

greenfire

Sat, Oct 20 2007, 11:08 pm

I definately agree with not letting her do this at school even if you allow this at home ...

Imaonwheels

Sun, Oct 21 2007, 6:07 am

2 important points:

1. Never allow what you think is wrong. You may not investigate, dig through her stuff, etc. But do not say its allowed even if she won't listen. My teenagers begged me saying, Ima why don't you allow we do it anyway. I just said what is unacceptable is unacceptable. Period. When you allow something in the home or allow it at all you are giving your hechsher to that thing. You also set up the next lowering of standards because kids stretch limits until they mo longer give. Chinuch is not a short term job. I just said, "Sorry you feel that way and think its ok to go behind my back but it does not change the fact that we think this is wrong". Today my dd has accepted stricter standards than mine and make no secret that she will not allow them to do what she did. I hope not.

2. An important part of growing up is dealing with the consequences of your actions. That's life. If she gets caught with this let her deal with it. If the school calls you in with this you can say with a clean conscience that you do not approve of this in your home and she learned it in school and not at home. Guess what. They are not dummies. They will also not sit on the kids but will also show no approval. The rope you give doesn't have to hang, it can also be what you use to crawl back. Deal with your own dd and let the school hanhala do its job as well.

greentiger

Sun, Oct 21 2007, 6:19 am

How about speaking to the school about it as a widespread problem that they should deal with? I don't know what school your daughter is in, but I would venture to say that this problem exsits nowadays in all of the frummest schools and we can't just keep ignoring it, by "getting rid of the culprit". The girls are gonna be pick up the music other places -it's not only one girl in the school, trust me. If they are in High School then I think the best approach would be to have the school staff explain to them what is wrong with non jewish music, and what influence it is having on them. It doen'st need to be a point and blame situation, but a springboard for a new area of improvement.

red sea

Sun, Oct 21 2007, 8:06 pm

I would do nothing. And I wouldn't blame it on the camp either. Theres music in even "frummer" places & worse. If this is the extent of things during her teenage years, well, pick your battles. If there are consequenses from the school deal with it then.

greenfire

Sun, Oct 21 2007, 8:32 pm

omg ... there are always establishments that do different things than we do at home ... whether it be radio, cholov yisroel or acum, short or long socks ... whatever ...

lamplighter

Sun, Oct 21 2007, 8:47 pm

Your not asking how to discourage her, or set rules/standards aginst the music, ur concern is with regards to her getting caught...
well it's her choice, the greaatest thign u can do as a parent is teach her that there are consequences to her actions and she takes responsibilities for her choices. you can tell her what the school might do, or recommend what she should be wary of, but dont protect her secular music habit!!!!!

btw I think mentioning a camp's name here is loshon harah and neccesary for the the reader to understand the issue in your post, please edit.

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