Sons birthday november, would you hold back

amother

Ginger

Thu, Nov 16 2017, 7:09 am

What would you do? Shold u repeat kindergarten or send to pre 1 a next year? He just turned 4. Don't want him to be youngest and have a hard time....

mommish613

Thu, Nov 16 2017, 7:15 am

It really all depends on the child...today the trend is to keep kids the oldest esp with boys. There's always an advantage being the oldest when learning things like Gemara which can be difficult for any child. It also depends how he's doing socially.

I had DS repeat kindergarten because I wasn't sure at 3 years old when I registered him if he would be ready or not. He came in to pre1a with a huge advantage. He's graduated 8th grade this year and I have no regrets.

BetsyTacy

Thu, Nov 16 2017, 7:19 am

Totally depends on the child. Why not speak to his pre-school teachers or even any of your friends who are pre-school teachers if they know your child well.

Just remember, someone will have to be the youngest, and the next-to-the-youngest. It might be right for your child, and it might not be, but pretty soon we will be having neuro-typical kids graduating high school at 20 because everyone's parents were afraid their kids would be the youngest so held them back.

mha3484

Thu, Nov 16 2017, 7:24 am

I have this exact same issue. My son was three last week and our deadline is Nov 30th. He can go to Nursery (4 year olds) at the elementary school next year but I refuse to make him the baby in the class. I found a play group of older 3's and plan to have him do that next year.

Where I live, school on Sundays starts in pre 1a. Its really a lot for a kid that is not even 5 yet when school starts. They also cover a lot of material in pre 1a. My oldest was reading both Hebrew and English by the end of the year.

Ultimately, I worry less about the early years and more about what happens when they get to upper elementary and start learning mishnayos and gemara. The abstract reasoning that is required is already challenging for many boys, why would I have my kid be the absolute youngest and therefore be even more at a disadvantage?

So really I think with boys in a yeshiva setting its much better to be the oldest then the youngest if its an option for you.

chocolatecake

Thu, Nov 16 2017, 7:27 am

My daughter's birthday is October and I interviewed her in a school where the cutoff is November. The principal starts telling me your know your daughter is very young.... I told the principal that I am aware she is of the younger kids but she is doing just fine right now in nursery. I get very disturbed by this attitude and needless to say I am not sending her to that school next year. If you don't want October kids in Kindergarden make your cutoff point 10/1. Parents get so hung up about "I dont want my kid to be the youngest" etc. If your son is doing fine now in nursery there is no reason not to send him to kindergarden. Yes sometimes the youngest kids in the class are a little behind and need to be repeated however you need a reason to repeat a kid and birthday alone is not a reason.

miami85

Thu, Nov 16 2017, 9:21 am

I think it depends on the kid and can't be a blanket statement without knowing if your kid is a "smart" kid or not--smart can be academic or even social. I have lots of December birthdays in my life and many of them were very smart and stayed with their "calendar" year--one even skipped a grade. When it came to one of my kids there were actual delays so I made the decision to hold back--especially since many states have changed the cutoff to Sept/October and its only NY that still uses December. Many yeshivos in NY do hold back November/December kids, but if a kid is showing capabilities, I wouldn't hold back just because of birthday. I know someone who has a kid around the same age as my child, and they did not hold back and they don't have regrets. While kids may not like "struggling", they also don't like finding out that they have to be in an extra year of school b/c of an arbitrary decision made when they were 4.

purple 1

Thu, Nov 16 2017, 9:51 am

Do you have to decide right now what to do? If not I would wait closer to the end of the year and look at and evaluate these points
- where is the child up to socially?
- where is he up to academically?
- how is his ability to sit still and listen?
- how are his verbal skills in the classroom?
- how is ability in fine/gross motor skills?
- how tall/big is he in reference to the other children?
- how far exactly is he from the deadline? A week? A month? Or two months?
- are there other children close to his age that are going to be in his class? Is it an older or younger class in general?

Based on that if your child is doing well in the age group he is in now, not overly small, and there will be other children close to his age in the class (not a huge group of children held back from the year before) then I would move him up
You can always keep him back in pre1a if he is sooo much behind other children

amother

Lilac

Thu, Nov 16 2017, 9:55 am

I was the first or second oldest kid in my class, because my birthday fell close to the cut off date, and my parents choose to hold me back. In retrospect it was definitely not a good decision. My first 2 years or so of school I had social trouble, because I was a bit ahead of my peers, and was bored, because I already learned much of what was taught. I had friends in the grade ahead of me who were also born right around the cut off date, but they acclimated just fine to being in a class which was mostly a year older than them. I however was always resentful that I was the oldest in the class.

I would never hold a kid back, because psychologically and socially it's easier to catch up (and virtually everyone does by a certain age) than be the oldest. Especially when everyone else your age is graduating and moving on with their lives, and you're stuck in school for another year Confused

amother

Lemon

Thu, Nov 16 2017, 10:05 am

amother wrote:

And that's why it has to be based on your kid, not some rule.

I was born a couple of days before the cut-off. I was smart, straight As, yadda yadda. I was also miserable. Physically behind, so I always felt clumsy and awkward. Emotionally behind, so I never had a lot of friends. By middle school, the other girls were interested in boys; I was interested in dolls. It was awful.

My sister held back both or her near-deadline kids, to great effect. I let one go forward, because she seemed ready, and probably was; I held the other back, and don't regret it. My friend pushed both of hers ahead. I think one was a huge mistake, but he's not my kid.

There's no hard and fast rules to be followed. Do what you think is best for your kids.

amother

Lavender

Thu, Nov 16 2017, 1:37 pm

We just had this decision with our daughter last year. We spoke to a lot of people about it, professional we know and parents we know. Most of the professionals (teachers, therapists, special ed people, etc.) said to put her ahead, and most of the parents said they would hold back, which I found interesting. Most importantly, talk to your son's teacher - they know best what your child is up to and what would work.

Here are the points to consider, with what we were told by teachers and professionals.
Points about your son:
- Is he socially at age level or above? If the answer is no, don't push ahead.
- Is he emotionally at age level or above? If the answer is no, don't push ahead.
- Is he intellectually at age level or above? If the answer is no, don't push ahead. I know, hard to gauge at this age (and we all think our kids are brilliant, right?), the teacher from this year can help. But if he's able to grasp concepts he's learning this year, and generally can learn new things without difficulty, he's fine.
- Is his self confidence average or above? If the answer is no, don't push ahead. Some kids need an extra year of being the big fish and knowing what's going on to build their confidence up and then are super self confident and thrive.
- Is his independence average or above? This is both mental and physical. If he has to complete a taks, will he go ahead and do it once instructed, or does the teacher have to go over and help him get started every time (this is totally age appropriate, it just really depends on the kid) - the teacher this year can help you understand if he's mentally independent. For physical independence - does he still need help in the bathroom (can he wipe? button his pants back up?)? Can he open his yogurt by himself? Without spilling? These things aren't super critical, but no one is looking over their shoulders at the kids in pre-1a so much to see if they need help. It shouldn't be your top consideration, but something to keep in mind. A kid who isn't so independent and isn't assertive enough to ask for help would really really benefit from an extra year of having a warm and helping hand in kindergarten to help him which would build up his independence and/or assertiveness. This probably also depends on what the programs are like at the school.
- Is his attention span at age level or above? This depends on the pre-1a itself. If the pre-1a has a lot more sitting and paying attention than kindergarten, then if your answer is no, don't push ahead. If it's the same amount of sitting and paying attention, then it's ok to push ahead even if the answer is no.
- Are his fine motor skills at age level or above? This depends on the pre-1a itself. If the pre-1a is very geared towards learning to write, then if your answer is no, then don't push ahead. If it's very little writing, then it's ok to push ahead even if the answer is no.
- Are his gross motor skills are age level or above? This one isn't so important for succeeding in pre-1a, so it doesn't matter much unless he's very behind. Someone pointed out to me that for boys, later on in school, it may matter if he's small or uncoordinated, since boys are more sports oriented, but you could keep him back and he could still be that way just by nature, so I don't think it's a reason to hold back.
- Is his physical size very small? Similar to gross motor skills, this doens't affect performance in school. Again, for boys it's maybe more important later on because of sports. But again, you could keep your kid back and they could still be the shortest, so I don't think it's a reason to hold back.

Points about the pre-1a program:
- Is it very 'academic' - focused heavily on reading and writing, teaches lots of material, has lots of desk time? If the answer is yes, think about whether your son is ready for this, and if you want him to be in this environment now or think he would benefit from another year of more free play and less pressure. Think about whether he has some pre-reading and pre-math skills in place. Think about his ability to sit and focus. Think about his interest in learning right now (not all kids this age are interested, and that's totally normal).
- Is there much less free play in this pre-1a than kindergarten? Some pre-1a programs still have lots of free play and looser structure. Some pre-1as make you sit and listen a lot. There is a lot to be gained developmentally from free play, especially in the areas of social and emotional development. Once the environment is very structured, the teachers kind of stop focusing on the kids social and emotional development (they just make sure no ones falling apart or killing each other). Think about whether you think your son would thrive from an extra year of just being a kid.

For reference, in the end, with the recommendation of her teacher and weighing her abilities, we decided to push our daughter up to pre-1a, she is one of the very youngest (and I think she is actually the smallest size-wise). Our daughter is thriving and very happy!!! But you have to know your kid and make a decision based on that.