S/O what's great about being a woman?

shabbatiscoming

Tue, Nov 21 2017, 2:57 pm

Alternative wrote:

First of all, people will definitely notice if I don't shave, even if I wear a skirt past my knee. A lot of us have hairy legs!
I know no one is forcing me to shave or put on make up. My observations and feelings reflect my own feelings on my position as a woman in society. No one is forcing my husband to shave either, or to cut his nails for that matter. But certain things reflect badly on people in our society, and where I live, it would be just as uncouth for a woman to come to the office with noticeably hairy legs, as for her to come with sweatpants.
I don't think this is uncommon, I've worked in many professions and lived in different places.
Yes, I think it is unfair, and I am sure Simone and her ilk are turning in their graves.

If your skirt is long, nobody is looking at your legs. I promise you that.

Alternative

Tue, Nov 21 2017, 2:59 pm

shabbatiscoming wrote:

If your skirt is long, nobody is looking at your legs. I promise you that.

I am tall. A skirt past my knees still leaves a lot of leg exposed.

shabbatiscoming

Tue, Nov 21 2017, 3:01 pm

Alternative wrote:

I am tall. A skirt past my knees still leaves a lot of leg exposed.

OK, you are nitpicking. Im just trying to say that not everyone cares about hairy legs. And sometimes you can wear a skirt down your entire leg to cover it too.

amother

Beige

Tue, Nov 21 2017, 3:14 pm

shabbatiscoming wrote:

If your skirt is long, nobody is looking at your legs. I promise you that.

I was once asked to speak to a female employee about shaving her legs and underarms. Her skirts always fell below her knee, but she didn't shave, and the employer felt it looked unprofessional. I refused, by the way, as I don't work in human resources, and the woman was a close friend.

Alternative

Tue, Nov 21 2017, 3:17 pm

shabbatiscoming wrote:

OK, you are nitpicking. Im just trying to say that not everyone cares about hairy legs. And sometimes you can wear a skirt down your entire leg to cover it too.

I am saying that absolutely no woman comes to work with hairy legs where I live, or walks around with hairy legs exposed. I am not talking about women with fine blond body hair, but noticeably hairy legs.
The point is not that I can wear long skirts, tights, or even pants to cover up my legs. The point is that I feel that there's a much higher standard placed on women when it comes to appearance.
I assure you that a woman who walked into the office or staff room with exposed hairy legs, a bushy unibrow, and maybe a slight mustache, would be viewed askance.
Do you not think that Hilary Clinton spends a lot more time on maintaining her appearance than Obama or Trump? Do you think it's because she enjoys it so much?
The Golda Meir look doesn't fly these days. Unfortunately.

amother

Jade

Tue, Nov 21 2017, 3:17 pm

amother wrote:

There is one thing about being a women which although it doesn't affect me personally still bothers me.

I have friends and relatives in their thirties and older who still aren't married. My husband knows almost no men that age who are still single. I know this isn't an intrinsic difference between being a man or women but still the pain of older female singles vs the lack of male counterparts for them comes to mind when I consider who has it easier.

Btw, In the Chassidish world it's just the opposite. There are so many older boys and men and almost no older girls.

shabbatiscoming

Tue, Nov 21 2017, 3:18 pm

amother wrote:

Id be reporting such a employer, the one who ask you to speak to the lady, not the lady with the hair on her legs.
How awful.

shabbatiscoming

Tue, Nov 21 2017, 3:21 pm

Alternative wrote:

That is disgraceful and no offense but I would never want to work for a place like that and I think you should actually be embarrassed to be saying this.
Why in the bloody world should a woman be viewed askance just because she may have hair in places that YOU may not find ok, but she doesnt want to get rid of? I really find that deplorable.

Alternative

Tue, Nov 21 2017, 3:33 pm

shabbatiscoming wrote:

I am not embarrassed saying this, because if you haven't noticed, I don't support this attitude. I am just saying it like it is.
There is no one 'place of work' like that. It's a societal attitude. I assure you that a woman who comes in with hairy legs and a slight mustache to a professional interview won't have much chance of getting the job, unless she happens to outshine her competitors in all other fields.
The fact you oppose this doesn't make it less of a societal reality. Again, I ask, do you think Hillary Clinton feels the pressure to spend more time on her appearance than Obama or Trump? If so, why?

amother

Turquoise

Tue, Nov 21 2017, 3:43 pm

I wonder what husbands would say if asked...about 'what's so great about being a man' vs what's so great about being a woman (I'm no longer married)...Are they all thrilled and feel lucked out? Do they really have it easier or do they look at us at having it easier or being luckier? Personally, during marriage, I hated everything and anything about being a woman, all the responsibilities of cooking, cleaning, monthly cycles, pregnancy/ childbearing, shopping, socializing woman style, dressing up, working (not woman thing per se but reality in today's times) and endless worrying about my man, children, friends and family...Oh how I envied yeshivish men in my circles (ex included) whose daily schedule was to: daven three times a day, sit and learn Torah and THE END

amother

Saddlebrown

Tue, Nov 21 2017, 3:48 pm

amother wrote:

My DH agrees that men got a much better deal (at least in this world).

shabbatiscoming

Tue, Nov 21 2017, 3:59 pm

Alternative wrote:

you can only be so sure of this where you work, and nowhere else.

mandksima

Tue, Nov 21 2017, 4:06 pm

Wow. I think so many women are missing the understanding of the special aspects of being a woman. We are such superior spiritual beings than men and really are their helpers in navigating this world. Men lack the emotional understanding in most cases and women have that, called Bina, as a special tool to help us see things and interpret situations in ways that men can't. We are not as easily distracted by physical things, we can multi-task very efficiently and we have special nurturing capabilities aside from the physical ones of birthing and nursing. BECAUSE of these great gifts, we are much closer to Hashem to begin with (therefore many mitzvot that bring the person to more spirituality are superfluous and we don't need to do them like men,) born more perfect (we don't need a brit) and we are given this role to help those less fortunate (I.e. men.)

A while back, I read a great book called The Moon's Lost Light by Devorah Heshelis which goes through the role of women originally, how it was changed after the sin of Chava, how we have recitified that sin so far and how we will return to our perfect original role (being obviously superior to men) after Moshiach. We can clearly see how close we are to Moshiach based on how women have gone from being dependent upon men for safety, shelter and money in older times until recently when women can choose not to get married and have kids and live on her own if she chooses and support herself. This was a very interesting read and gave me a fresh perspective according to the history of the world and Hashem's design.

I can't think of many reasons that I'd prefer being a man. I definitely resent the need to constantly make sure I am tzanua enough so I won't be responsible that a man may sin from seeing me as men can be so easily turned on and it is quite a struggle to find something attractive on me without being attracting. It actually makes me want to be a homebody as much as I can. Another thing that is decidedly easier for men is that I would love the option of Kollel all day. I love learning Torah and would love to be intellectually stimulated all day. I'm not a teacher by nature (although I do seem like I do that on Imamother) and I can do that one on one but women just can't support themselves by learning Torah. I am looking forward to Moshiach coming when I will be able to learn all of the time with all my holy Jewish women. I know I don't need to learn all day as I have other important roles but I really, really want to and find it makes me happier than almost anything else! I have lots of hobbies and talents, BH but I love learning Torah best. This is recent though and I couldn't have said this even two years ago.

The satisfaction that women get from knowing they keep the whole fabric of the family together is awesome. We are always behind the scenes and are the inspiration for the men to do their thing. We really are a whole lot more spiritual and it comes so easy to us. We have less distractions like men do when it comes to lust making them do stupid things.

I heard a great shiur on women yesterday and on the women of chanukah. The whole Maccabee story only happened after a few women sacrificed themselves after doing brit mila on their sons at risk of death and then survivors telling the men that they also had to contribute to the fight even though they were so outnumbered. They convinced the men to leave their caves where they were studying Torah. That's when the Chanukah story most people know starts. Without women in the pivotal beginning role, almost every Tanach story would not have come about. Women have a strong intuition and a strong sense of spiritual power and strength. We use our hearts to make crucial decisions that wouldn't be made if we were only using logic like men tend to do. We often go out of our comfort zones to make the necessary life altering decisions. Our counterpart men usually disagree with us but we know better than to just follow their logic. For example,

-Sarah knew to throw Ishmael out in order to save Yitzchak (and the future Jewish nation)and Avraham didn't.
-Rivka knew Yaakov needed to get the brachot instead of Eisav (and that saved the Jewish nation) and Yitzchak didn't.
-Rachel knew she had to give Leah the secret signs so she would be able to marry Yaakov and mother many of the shevatim (and that saved the Jewish nation) and Yaakov didn't.
-Yaakov also missed the biggest opportunity to change Eisav into a tzaddik by not marrying Dina to him. That act alone could have brought Moshiach in those times and prevented thousands of years of difficulties.
-Tamar knew she needed to have Yehuda father her baby but Yehuda nearly had her killed.
-Esther knew her role was the only one which could save the Jewish nation. Mordechai knew too but in this example, she was the actual savior.
-Yehudit was able to use the seemingly weaker nature of the woman to be able to kill the general and scare away the enemy army yet she saved the Jewish nation and was obviously not weak.
-Rut followed through with Naomi's plan and thus gave birth to the line of Dovid Hamelech and future Moshiach.
-Before that, the two daughters of Lot were credited with the effort made to continue on with creating humanity by giving birth to necessary nations. They were righteous in this act.

We women tend to forget about all this and focus on the unfair roles we play. Yes, we have valid complaints but to focus on them is useless as we are almost at the end of time as we know it and we need to focus our energies on strengthening the poor men who have it so hard spiritually in these really tough days when the world is being hit the hardest with chaos and difficult challenges. We know the end of days comes with these challenges but we can't forget that WOMEN will be the ones to usher in Moshiach's reign with our conviction, strength and spiritual acuity. If we can handle periods, pregnancy and birth and raising babies, we can do it! We know the goal and there is a reason we have those hardships that men don't - we need the strength and endurance in order to push forward. Men have no experience in this and is the reason they gave up and we didn't before leaving Egypt. The women beautified themselves and seduced their men who lost their masculinity and therefore their desire for life and procreation. It was all because of the women and will be again, BEH. Women, get your tambourines ready!

Now, if that wasn't inspirational then I might as well stop trying...

sequoia

Tue, Nov 21 2017, 4:07 pm

amother wrote:

.Oh how I envied yeshivish men in my circles (ex included) whose daily schedule was to: daven three times a day, sit and learn Torah and THE END

But you know that's not normal. Most men throughout history and today work, and those who don’t are in theory supposed to take on more household and parenting duties. If you say a system like the one you describe exists, I believe you, but it’s not the way of the world. If anything it’s the opposite. There’s nothing inherent in being a woman that says you have all responsibility, for everything.

mandksima

Tue, Nov 21 2017, 4:17 pm

Oh, and regarding shaving legs, this article I saw recently comes to mind:
model who doesn't shave

Can't say I find it pleasant to look at but no one asked me and I just think perhaps the times they are a'changin...

amother

Blue

Tue, Nov 21 2017, 6:38 pm

amother wrote:

My DH agrees that men got a much better deal (at least in this world).

I think that there are a lot of men who have a better deal than me, and a lot of men who have a worse deal than me. I think that there are a lot of women who have a better deal than me, and a lot of women who have a worse deal than me....

What I mean to say is, it's individual. I, personally, with my personality, feel I would have been better suited living as a man. I like to learn, I hate housework, I'm not particularly a baby person, etc. I just find the whole working/learning thing so much easier than the housework/baby thing.

I also don't have a husband who is raking it in, so I can't have as much cleaning help as I want/need, which I do see some women do have. I do almost all the housework myself, and I have to work besides. If I had a different life, maybe I would like being a woman more? I just don't know.

dancingqueen

Tue, Nov 21 2017, 7:06 pm

Simple1 wrote:

I decided a long time ago that this goes into a category called "it's best not to overthink things". My life is far from perfect, but I feel there has never been a better time to be born a women.

So true.

I happen to enjoy girly stuff like make up and clothes but I also enjoy more intellectual pursuits (and lots of other stuff!). There’s no contradiction. I feel bad for the amother who thinks she’s trans because she’s not into typical girly stuff! There’s more than one type of woman just like there’s different types of men.

mommy3b2c

Tue, Nov 21 2017, 7:14 pm

dancingqueen wrote:

Agree completely. There are women info men things, and men into more girly things. What difference does it make?

penguin

Tue, Nov 21 2017, 9:24 pm

Quote:

I heard a great shiur on women yesterday and on the women of chanukah.

I'd love to hear it. Was it recorded? Maybe posted on-line?

top mom

Wed, Nov 22 2017, 5:01 am

Personally, I love being a woman!
I would be bored to tears wearing what my husband wears (white and black )EVERY SINGLE DAY
I love looking pretty, wearing makeup etc ,and yet I always also have the option of dressing simply and not wearing makeup any time
And yes, we woman have a stronger intuition and are more mature than most men!
Yay us Very Happy