Do you find this profile of Judge Rachel Freier inspiring

Maya

Mon, Nov 20 2017, 6:59 pm

It's a very inspiring article, about the woman herself and her successes as a public figure.

But there's a reason why there is an article about her in the NYT, and that's because she's an anomaly. The last paragraph turned me off. No one says that Chassidish women aren't capable; on the contrary, most of them are just as talented and capable as the rest of the females in this world. And yes, perhaps others can do what she does too. But why haven't they? Why is there one Hasidic female judge, and very few female public figures, from a community of tens of thousands of women? The reality is that most women are not given the opportunities or the means or the allowance to do what she has been able to. And to claim that anyone who wants to can do whatever they want is disingenuous.

I do applaud her for all the good work she has done and continues to do. The anecdotes from her courtroom are certainly heartwarming.

Fox

Mon, Nov 20 2017, 7:07 pm

Two issues here: first, I'm beginning to wonder if we should consider the NYT as anything but a crackpot outlet pandering to bigotry and prejudice. Obviously not as bad as The Daily Stormer but a lot more deceitful and insidious.

A while back someone linked to a hateful article regarding modest clothing. The thesis of that article was, basically, "You don't have to be a religious weirdo in order to want to cover up a little!" Here we have an article for which the thesis seems to be, "Woman overcomes her backward community to achieve real success!"

Of course, executive editor Dean Baquet has admitted to the bigotry. He just happens to serve constituents who are fine with it.

As for Judge Freier herself, it's obviously a great story. I love to read about women's lives and how they've pursued various passions and undertaken responsibilities. However, I am not inspired simply because someone has pursued a job that, for whatever reason, is unusual in her community. For every Judge Freier that the NYT deigns to cover, there are dozens of women who have found ways to use their binah, nurturing capabilities, and interpersonal skills in novel ways. Some run businesses; some work as professionals; some have created large non-profits or small chesed organizations; some serve as matriarchs of their families. Their stories and lives are every bit as interesting.

It is the worst kind of misogyny to respect and admire women solely because they have proven they can do jobs previously or generally done by men.

Whether it's the NYT or, l'havdil, Jewish outlets, it is the nature of news media to cover "man bites dog" stories. It's unrealistic to think that Judge Freier's story is not newsworthy. In fact, I can think of dozens of questions for Judge Freier connected to her personal story or to the nature of her career and job. Interesting people are always . . . interesting. But the whole, "frum woman exceeds community expectations" narrative is demeaning and facile.

Mommyg8

Mon, Nov 20 2017, 8:09 pm

Fox, what you wrote is so very inspiring... and I am certainly not arguing with the truth of what you are saying. My only issue with this is - how many people (and I do mean people in our frum community) actually DO see it this way?

Do we really admire a woman who has managed to raise a large family, who has used her capabilities to keep her home clean, her children well fed, and her family well nurtured? Or do we only admire her IF she does all of the above (by outsourcing) AND she becomes a judge?

What do you think?

Fox

Mon, Nov 20 2017, 8:26 pm

Mommyg8 wrote:

Do we really admire a woman who has managed to raise a large family, who has used her capabilities to keep her home clean, her children well fed, and her family well nurtured? Or do we only admire her IF she does all of the above (by outsourcing) AND she becomes a judge?

What do you think?

Of course we admire her more if she becomes a judge. Even among strongly traditional elements of the frum veldt, we've picked up the cultural attitude that homemaking isn't "real" work.

We artfully disguise it by saying things like, "Well, I don't like being home all day," as if that were relevant in any conversation about status.

Mommyg8

Mon, Nov 20 2017, 8:28 pm

Fox wrote:

You're 100% on the money. Thanks for saying it so much better than I could!

amother

Copper

Mon, Nov 20 2017, 10:24 pm

amother wrote:

She is my role model. She is proof of my belief that we can have the best of both worlds. I appreciated the shout out to our local Montreal heroine, Mindy Pollak. She not only won her seat on the city council in 2013, she then spent 4 years as the single voice of reason on a hostile council. Her perseverance paid off two weeks ago when she swept her party to victory as they won 4/5 city council seats.

Isn't Mindy great! I find her very inspiring too. I know the woman who ran her campaign and that community is really building something beautiful.
Anon for location!

amother

Wheat

Mon, Nov 20 2017, 11:00 pm

Maya wrote:

Agree.
People wonder why our secular and non Jewish neighbors think our women are treated like second class citizens.
Well, if every time the politicians meet with our community, or whenever a frum organization is honored in the media, or whenever else our community and the outside community come together, there are only men in attendance, and men giving their opinions and advice and the women are never present, never seen, never given a platform, why do we expect them to think otherwise.
I know many of the men in attendance are good, men with utmost respect for women, and I understand this is a community sensitivity, it still doesn't look good to the outside world. Like where are your women????? Don't you consider them competent and smart enough to have opinions on political matters and community issues. Are they truly only good for being in the background. Are they just good enough for working as secretaries and tending to the home and children.
So many of the community issues involve women, yet not one of them is present to give their voice. It almost sounds like this Girl Council for Empowering Women that was founded this past year in Saudi Arabia, to the delight of Saudi women but sitting on stage for the first ever meeting were 13 men.

crust

Mon, Nov 20 2017, 11:00 pm

Fox wrote:

I am wondering- are there that many people respecting her in real life?
Did she get supportive feedback while she was still in college? Or only now because she has made something of herself is she worthy of respect? My question is does our society respect and support someone's journey and the efforts that go into it?
But more than that I am wondering about her currently;
Do people tell her we are so thankfull to your contributions towards the community? Or- is she given that vibe of you shiksa you for thinking about being a judje! We have a Torah and we try not to go to akim/you are a mother and a wife you dont belong in a courtroom/dont assume you are Deborah blablabla?

Mommyg8

Mon, Nov 20 2017, 11:06 pm

amother wrote:

Honestly, I just don't think they are wondering about this at all. To them, everything we do is automatically strange; I think that as long as we do the right thing, are respectful and honest, then that is more than enough.

amother

Mistyrose

Mon, Nov 20 2017, 11:28 pm

amother wrote:

Isn't Mindy great! I find her very inspiring too. I know the woman who ran her campaign and that community is really building something beautiful.
Anon for location!

Hi fellow Montrealer! I know Mindy well and she is indeed a remarkable woman. Other frum communities around the world who are struggling to live harmoniously with their neighbours can learn from the amazing work of our local askanim.

amother

Wheat

Mon, Nov 20 2017, 11:33 pm

Mommyg8 wrote:

They actually wonder about this very much. They don't care about our other strange customs as much as they do about this.
From personal experience.

Fox

Tue, Nov 21 2017, 12:08 am

amother wrote:

They actually wonder about this very much. They don't care about our other strange customs as much as they do about this.
From personal experience.

We simply need to give them an answer they'll understand:

"This may seem counterintuitive to you, but we have a long history of not mingling casually with members of the opposite gender. It helps prevent misunderstandings and helps avoid situations in which people might be vulnerable to abuse or intimidation. Unfortunately, current headlines suggest that many women in contemporary society suffer greatly without clear social barriers to dictate behavior between men and women. Think of it as a 'safe space' that allows women to interact with one another freely, without regard for male behavior or attitudes. Perhaps you would like us to organize a separate meeting of women so that you can hear their ideas or concerns."

If the past month has taught us anything, it is that they are the ones with the problem. While there are clearly times and places in our communities in which women's opinions are not adequately respected, it's also pretty evident that some degree of separation between men and women isn't a wacky idea.

Mevater

Tue, Nov 21 2017, 12:48 am

Amazing article that puts many in Footsteps and Yaffed and the Leah Forster types to shame, who say our religion, lifestyle, attitudes and the lack of good secular education is crippling our kids permanently and eliminating any chance of success in life. Ha!

Perhaps shes uniquely bright and gifted and thats how she got to where she is today, but no one can say its not doable to succeed and reach the highest levels of secular education after going to Charedi schools.

Although I think she had a Bais Yaakov education and not a Satmar or Pupa education, and there might be a big difference.

Maya

Tue, Nov 21 2017, 11:17 am

Mevater wrote:

Let me give you a small example.

My work is also related to the legal field, and while I'm nothing special and anyone can get into it, I have one distinct advantage over the average Chassidish woman that lives around me: I can drive. I drive 45 minutes into the next county for my work. Sometimes during the first few months of this, when I was a new driver, I would literally stop to cry when I thought about how fortunate I am that I can do that, that I can get around on my own, independently, and do what I wanted to do.

What choices does a non-driving Chassidish woman have, if she wants to have a career where getting around by car is essential? She can have her husband drive her and make him wait around for her, or she can spend ungodly amounts of money on car services. Does that sound non-crippling to you? Ruchi Frier drives; the article talks about her getting in her minivan and driving to court. Perhaps she should think about the women who can't do that before she confidently says that anyone can do what they want. Maybe one who lives in a city with a good public transport system. But the others?

And this is likely the exact reason for the driving ban. To prevent women from getting out and achieving professional success. Women are crippled by it in their simple daily lives, how much more so when they want a career where it's necessary.

Mommyg8

Tue, Nov 21 2017, 11:24 am

crust wrote:

Crust, in my world it is the opposite. Women who choose to stay home and NOT spend their entire salary on babysitters and cleaning help are looked down on, while women who work, especially in a job with a career, are looked up to. Even if their kids are being raised by non-Jews.

My only issue with her profile is that she mentions that she decided she will do everything - cook and bake while working in law and going to school on the side. IMHO, this is not realistic, and this is not something the average woman can do. She is raising the bar too high. There are just too many korbonos that I know of, and many women who tried to do it all and literally fell apart, both physically and emotionally. So in this area I don't know that she's a good role model.

Now... quickly ducking the tomatoes...

amother

Linen

Tue, Nov 21 2017, 11:28 am

amother wrote:

I think this is an amazing inspiration for all those chasidishe people that think they can't have both and be part of their amazing community. There is no need for then to turn an organization like footsteps. They can go to college, earn a respectable degree and raise a great toradik family.
Just walk into Touro (especially Boro Park division) and you will see for yourself Chasidim ask getting their degrees. Thank you Ruchy for showing us by example.

I'm not following the Ruchy vs footsteps narrative.

People who show up in footsteps are considering leaving chasidish life (or have). The reasons for wanting to do so, are considerably more complex than education.