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Are there an equal percentage of "Frum" Zexual Perverts?
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Mevater




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Nov 21 2017, 8:27 am
With the growing awareness of so many Zexual perverts in the workplace, in the world at large, and the fact that well known men are being accused publicly, but there are probably lots of lesser known Zexual perverts that we will never know about, because the stories dont make news.

I wonder

1- If there is an equal percentage of Zexual perverts among Frum men?

2- If Frum women would ever have the freedom to publicly accuse Frum Zexual perverts, OR would they be dissuaded and be told its Lashon Hara, and the man's family will suffer, and his kids wont be able to get married, yadayadayada?

3- Are Frum men who have above average Zexual needs, more likely to satiate their needs privately, where they're less likely to be found out, for fear of shaming their families?


Last edited by Mevater on Tue, Nov 21 2017, 8:40 am; edited 1 time in total
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Simple1




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Nov 21 2017, 8:35 am
I'm guessing not because we have stricter boundaries and gedarim.
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amother
Dodgerblue


 

Post Tue, Nov 21 2017, 8:37 am
No, not equal at all. PLEASE!!!!
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ra_mom




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Nov 21 2017, 8:37 am
Equal percentage? I would say so.
Equal amounts? No.
But of course there is no actual data.
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Mevater




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Nov 21 2017, 8:41 am
ra_mom wrote:
Equal percentage? I would say so.
Equal amounts? No.
But of course there is no actual data.


I just edited that in the Subject line.
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LovesHashem




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Nov 21 2017, 8:41 am
1. No. We have values, morals, less abuse, less divorce, and generally people are happy and safer in frum communities. Yes there are issues and abuse, but the rate is much less.

2. The latter is something that happens, but again, there's been awareness. With frum se*ual predators watch sites, to news articles. People understand the person can hurt more, and although there are cases where some idiots tell people to shut up, there's

a. more awareness
b. women are stronger and more liklely to speak up nowadays, especially with a platform as big as the internet

3. I don't think so.
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Mevater




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Nov 21 2017, 8:45 am
LovesHashem wrote:
1. No. We have values, morals, less abuse, less divorce, and generally people are happy and safer in frum communities. Yes there are issues and abuse, but the rate is much less.


Ha! In the last few years Ive become aware of so many FRUM male sickos, who Id never believe a word about, had it not become pubilc knowledge, I just dont think thats accurate.
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rivkam




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Nov 21 2017, 8:51 am
amother wrote:
No, not equal at all. PLEASE!!!!


I wish you were right but it seems similar percentages in all groups. Unfortunately there are sick people in our communities and we shouldn't be in denial about it.

The issue in the Jewish community is that people are probably more scared to go to the authorities and institutions can be bad at dealing with things. I think in recent years people are learning to deal with it better victims are more likely to be believed and treated with the respect they deserve. I hope this trend continues and we all educate our children that just because a person is frum or Jewish it doesn't mean to automatically trust them or that they are G-d fearing jews.
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33055




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Nov 21 2017, 9:11 am
I believe more in the frum communities because of my personal experience. I think there are strange boundary issues because of the segregation of the genders. Men often don't know how to relate properly to ladies.

When I was a young woman working for a frum guy in Brooklyn, the frum married men used to hit on me constantly. The gentiles were respectful and knew normal office etiquette. I wouldn't meet with frum customers without an older secretary right in the room. They couldn't understand that working with a woman is not an invitation. I think because they had no normal exchanges with woman, this caused the problems. This scared me off marriage for years.

While it is not actual zexual perversion, it would belong in the me too campaign if I wanted to trivialize actual victims.
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PinkFridge




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Nov 21 2017, 9:17 am
Squishy wrote:
I believe more in the frum communities because of my personal experience. I think there are strange boundary issues because of the segregation of the genders. Men often don't know how to relate properly to ladies.

When I was a young woman working for a frum guy in Brooklyn, the frum married men used to hit on me constantly. The gentiles were respectful and knew normal office etiquette. I wouldn't meet with frum customers without an older secretary right in the room. They couldn't understand that working with a woman is not an invitation. I think because they had no normal exchanges with woman, this caused the problems. This scared me off marriage for years.

While it is not actual zexual perversion, it would belong in the me too campaign if I wanted to trivialize actual victims.


I think there are plenty of men who do know how to relate, even if they won't use first names, even if they set boundaries that you will not find in the outside world. I think that the boundaries we set - and I'm sure all frum business have gedarim, whether or not they're identical (IOW, I don't think anyone who calls a secretary by her first name is going to burn or on some slippery slope, just citing an example that is NOT imo strange ultrasegregation boundary stuff) - bring us great bracha and a level of security.

Now, how to deal with stuff that r"l happens? There are halachic ways. If one is cynical about rabbanim, contact someone like a R' Yakov Horowitz.
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shabbatiscoming




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Nov 21 2017, 10:17 am
LovesHashem wrote:
1. No. We have values, morals, less abuse, less divorce, and generally people are happy and safer in frum communities. Yes there are issues and abuse, but the rate is much less.
I think this is both very naive and sad if you think that non jewish people dont have values and morals.

EVERY SINGLE thing that happens in the big bad world, also happens in the FRUM jewish world. EVERY. SINGLE. THING. Dont think otherwise. There is divorce, abuse, perversion.

And no, people are not happy and safer in frum communities. And if you think that, you have a false sense of safety. Every bad thing that is out there is in the frum world too. It all may be hidden better, but its out there.
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imasoftov




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Nov 21 2017, 10:28 am
amother wrote:
No, not equal at all. PLEASE!!!!

Which of these do you mean?
- please, OP, be aware that the percentage is not the same
- please, Hashem, let the percentage not be the same
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tichellady




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Nov 21 2017, 10:47 am
I don’t actually know, but I think yes. I really don’t understand why Gd tempts people to desire children.
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Mevater




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Nov 21 2017, 10:56 am
tichellady wrote:
I don’t actually know, but I think yes. I really don’t understand why Gd tempts people to desire children.


I wasnt thinking of children at all, I was thinking of men lusting for women, gone nuts.

Im thinking how the well known and respected and seemingly innocent Charlie Rose, allegedly walked around naked in front of employees and other such shenanigans.
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33055




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Nov 21 2017, 10:57 am
PinkFridge wrote:
I think there are plenty of men who do know how to relate, even if they won't use first names, even if they set boundaries that you will not find in the outside world. I think that the boundaries we set - and I'm sure all frum business have gedarim, whether or not they're identical (IOW, I don't think anyone who calls a secretary by her first name is going to burn or on some slippery slope, just citing an example that is NOT imo strange ultrasegregation boundary stuff) - bring us great bracha and a level of security.

Now, how to deal with stuff that r"l happens? There are halachic ways. If one is cynical about rabbanim, contact someone like a R' Yakov Horowitz.


My problem consisted of aggressive inappropriate s-xual advances IN AN OFFICE. The not relating is my thoughts about an explanation for why frum guys misbehaved. If it was across the board, I would say my behavior was at fault. But why only frum guys???
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PinkFridge




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Nov 21 2017, 11:10 am
Squishy wrote:
My problem consisted of aggressive inappropriate s-xual advances IN AN OFFICE. The not relating is my thoughts about an explanation for why frum guys misbehaved. If it was across the board, I would say my behavior was at fault. But why only frum guys???


It could be an answer. But the fault is not in segregation as much as how it's presented. Because there are many men who grew up segregated who aren't doing what you unfortunately had to put up with. I don't want to impugn your office, or their community, or whatever, but it is not afaik widespread.
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amother
Cerise


 

Post Thu, Nov 23 2017, 12:37 am
shabbatiscoming wrote:
I think this is both very naive and sad if you think that non jewish people dont have values and morals.

EVERY SINGLE thing that happens in the big bad world, also happens in the FRUM jewish world. EVERY. SINGLE. THING. Dont think otherwise. There is divorce, abuse, perversion.

And no, people are not happy and safer in frum communities. And if you think that, you have a false sense of safety. Every bad thing that is out there is in the frum world too. It all may be hidden better, but its out there.


Oh, come on!

You honesty think there are as many affairs in the frum world as there are in the secular world??
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amother
Goldenrod


 

Post Thu, Nov 23 2017, 12:53 am
amother wrote:
Oh, come on!

You honesty think there are as many affairs in the frum world as there are in the secular world??


Honestly, yes. I can't even tell you the amount of people I know that have cheated. It's well hidden but it happens a lot. I know a couple of divorced people who told me that their ex did and their ex knew others who had. I heard it directly from people who cheated themselves, giving all sorts of reasons for their bad sx life and halachic issues (like only cheating when wife had extended nidda for months). Don't be naive.
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imasoftov




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Nov 23 2017, 5:01 am
tichellady wrote:
I don’t actually know, but I think yes. I really don’t understand why Gd tempts people to desire children.

I found this thought-provoking. I don't have any answers but I did come up with, aside from lashon hara, another particularly frum obstacle to believing charges of pedophilia or incest, there's a midrash (Yoma 69b) that the rabbis at the time of Ezra, after disposing of the yetzer hara of idolatry, wanted to do the same to the yetzer hara of s-xual transgression (they just call it "the yetzer hara") but are warned that the world requires it, so they imprison it for three days and chickens stop laying eggs. So they blinded it and let it go, with the result that a people no longer desire their relatives.

tl;dr - not only the yetzer hara has trouble seeing.
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shabbatiscoming




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Nov 23 2017, 5:07 am
amother wrote:
Oh, come on!

You honesty think there are as many affairs in the frum world as there are in the secular world??
yes, I really do. why do people think that just because we are jews that means that we dont have every single bad thing in our communities. Also, the majority of non jews are good law abiding moral people. We as jews do not have the sole ownership on being moral people. And there are many jews who are anything but moral.
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