Was there collusion?

Fox

Sun, Dec 03 2017, 4:48 pm

dancingqueen wrote:

There is no more Hillary to support. She’s done. Her political career is over.

Let’s talk about Trump now.

Well, by that logic, there's no more Flynn, either. He was fired.

"Whataboutism" is a misnomer as applied to the political battles within the culture war. A better word would be "discrimination." Unfortunately, most conservatives are too timid to say it. A persistent pattern on the part of the media to cover or not cover certain stories and the DOJ to pursue or avoid pursuance of certain cases based on political affiliation and/or viewpoint is, plain and simple, discrimination.

It should be perfectly possible to investigate attempted Russian interference in the election as well as investigate malfeasance on the part of Obama officials and election malfeasance on the part of the DNC.

Of course, those Russians do seem to get around! According to a letter signed by a number of key members of Clinton's campaign and the DNC, Donna Brazile's descriptions of problems within the Clinton camp were also part of a Russian conspiracy. Hillary Team Open Letter

No word on whether it was the Russians that Brazile was in fear of when she closed her blinds each night to deter snipers.

browser

Sun, Dec 03 2017, 5:12 pm

I think this collusion thing is a total distraction , as if there was fair play within the government itself and those that manipulate what news gets put out. Its kind of like the theif who sued the homeowner for injury after breaking into his home.
If the so called collusion lead to revelation of the facts about all the deep seated corruption than I think it's a good thing. It has yet to be defined what the crime is. But notice that we r meant that believe this is the problem at hand in this country.

southernbubby

Sun, Dec 03 2017, 5:19 pm

Squishy wrote:

I don't know about your community, but in mine the guys starting out all only want to be managers. They manage jobs that they don't even know how to do.

DH gets asked to hire young inexperienced men. They want to start out supervising. shock

The legal jobless Americans of any race want a minimum of $15 per hour and are picketing for that. This is what the liberals are also advocating and I agree that this wage is a job killer and this is one of the reasons that people hire illegals.

33055

Sun, Dec 03 2017, 5:27 pm

southernbubby wrote:

I am not speaking of the wage. Three is no long term plan, nor is there delayed gratification. What can an inexperienced untrained employee add?

southernbubby

Sun, Dec 03 2017, 5:34 pm

Squishy wrote:

I am not speaking of the wage. Three is no long term plan, nor is there delayed gratification. What can an inexperienced untrained employee add?

But then it sounds like what you are saying is that the jobs being offered are not good enough for the job seekers so they won't take them. They only want jobs that put them at the top of the totem pole and they are not qualified. So if that is the case, why are illegals to blame for their lack of job opportunities?

Laiya

Sun, Dec 03 2017, 5:39 pm

WhatFor wrote:

I mean, both Flynn and Papadopoulos already pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI about their communications with Russia. Both of their plea deals include a clause stating that what's in the plea deal does not account for all of the charges that could be brought against them.

Usually, people plead guilty to lesser crimes to avoid being tried for a more serious crime, so we don't even know the whole story. In this case, Meuller is allowing pleas presumably so they'll flip on someone higher up on the totem pole. Who's higher on the totem pole than Flynn? Trump, Kushner, Pence, anyone else?

So what we have so far is pretty darn incriminating and it's not even the whole story.

It's also amazing to me how so many members of the party that considers itself "patriots" seem to not give a hoot that members of the current administration conspired with a foreign government against US interests and keep wanting to change the story to get us to care about someone who has zero role in government right now.

Like right now, there is an ongoing investigation into the possibility that a sitting US president put the interests of Vladimir Putin ahead of those of every US citizen. How could a "patriot" not be concerned?

But there's still no evidence that Trump colluded with Russia; nor has the special prosecutor even alleged a specific crime that is being investigated.

Re the pleas, if there was actual espionage, or collusion with a former government in return for favors, the FBI would not allow both Flynn and Papadopoulos off the hook with guilty pleas for a single count of making false statements to the FBI; a mere process crime.

Laiya

Sun, Dec 03 2017, 5:46 pm

youngishbear wrote:

Gotta love whataboutism.

What baffles me is that actual evidence of repeated fraud and collusion, confirmed by multiple sources, is utterly disregarded or excused when it's Hillary. Yet, smoke and mirrors allegations against Trump, with no evidence yet, has those same people enraged.

SixOfWands

Sun, Dec 03 2017, 6:10 pm

PinkFridge wrote:

As long as it's not Pence.

k

I doubt Pence was involved.

I would guess that Jared Kushner is a target. He will be pardoned before anything comes out.

And the Republicans will say, “but Hilary,”because they don’t care about what Trump’s people do. They want to reinvestigate an investigation that is closed, or dig up dirt on someone who is no longer relevant. Because that’s more important than getting to the bottom of whether Russia not only interfered with a US election, but if they did so with the assistance of people high up in Trump’s campaign.

Obfuscate, obfuscate, obfuscate. Talk about anything but what’s important.

marina

Sun, Dec 03 2017, 6:36 pm

Laiya wrote:

what baffles me is when people post without checking snopes or any normal fact checking website.

33055

Sun, Dec 03 2017, 6:45 pm

southernbubby wrote:

I am talking about my community. To be specific - frum Jews.

If I were a young man, I would be banging on the union door trying to figure out how to get these jobs paying $60 an hour or more. Or I would be learning a trade. I would start as a helper to learn the trade.

southernbubby

Sun, Dec 03 2017, 6:54 pm

Squishy wrote:

Sometimes you have to knock me in the head with it before I get it but now I get it. Yes, I am not sure why frum men are not willing to start from the bottom and work their way up or learn a trade. I do see a few frum people who insisted that their sons learned plumbing from the ground up which took years but now they make a great living. I also see some whose fathers encouraged them to be handy since they were very young and when they grew up, they knew business, computers, carpentry, etc but they had learned from a young age and now they have jobs as a result.

I agree with you on that. Learn a trade from the ground up and get a job.

33055

Sun, Dec 03 2017, 6:56 pm

SixOfWands wrote:

I disagree. I think all collusion is important for both the losers and winners of the campaign. I wouldn't want to only see Democrats beat up either. (I would probably be posting about what what the GOP did.) I think whether Obama's administration turned a blind eye or actively helped, this should also come to light.

Perhaps then future Janets won't take meetings on the tarmac or future Bernies have a fair shot. Perhaps future Hillaries will not delete emails or smash devices with hammers.

33055

Sun, Dec 03 2017, 7:05 pm

southernbubby wrote:

Perhaps it is because the emphasis is on Torah learning to the exclusion of learning a trade. Maybe we need shop classes or frum Boces for those without the abilities or desire to sit and learn who are otherwise perfectly well adjusted frum boys. We have programs for at risk boys.

marina

Sun, Dec 03 2017, 7:14 pm

Squishy wrote:

With your logic we can t blame any criminals for anything. We should have had better systems I place to prevent crimes.

Quote:

We owe it to our citizens first. We need to take care of our own first.

Perhaps the employer picked Southern Bubby because she is better educated. Perhaps he can make more money hiring her.

We need to enforce the existing laws. DACA's genesis is an illegal executive order. If this was voted in, then I wouldn't be so opposed.

As an immigrant, I find this rhetoric offensive. I am *our own* thanks.

And all of you who think you are so much better than illegals, you are just ignorant. You have no idea what illegal immigration means, how lucky you are, and how there but for the grace of god go each and every one of you. You did nothing to be born here and there's no reason you should pat yourself on the back for your amazing accomplishments. It's a complete accident of birth.

33055

Sun, Dec 03 2017, 7:22 pm

marina wrote:

Countries must be allowed to protect their boarders and have their laws lawfully followed. Last time we had this discussion, you agreed that we don't have unlimited resources to allow the billions of people in need access into our country.

marina

Sun, Dec 03 2017, 7:30 pm

Squishy wrote:

Yes we don't have the resources to open our borders but I sense a certain smugness that is distasteful to me. Maybe I am misreading you, and if so I apologize.

Mommyg8

Sun, Dec 03 2017, 7:31 pm

marina wrote:

All of us on this site are descendants of immigrants, in one way or another. Actually, that is the Jewish story - the Wandering Jew...

That does not make us ignorant, and that does not make illegal immigration suddenly "legal".