Wisdom you have experienced from disabled people

amother

Babyblue

Tue, Dec 05 2017, 2:42 pm

This is a spinoff from amother azure's comment on the thread about people with disabilities getting married.

What have you gained from knowing a person with a disability?

I'm.starting with something very specific.

My ds7 who has HFA overheard me call myself fat and ugly. (Yes I know I shouldn't do this so and especially not in his earshot but we all make mistakes.)

He came into the room and said-

Yes mommy, you are fat. But it is not like you think. It doesn't mean you are not good. It doesn't mean you are ugly. It just means that you have to wear bigger clothes.

Please share your stories of wisdom you have gained from people who are differently abled than most of the population.

youngishbear

Tue, Dec 05 2017, 3:48 pm

That all people are people.

(Not everyone in the disability community (if that is even a term that can be used on such a vast and heterogeneous population) appreciates being turned into inspiration [filth].)

Last edited by youngishbear on Tue, Dec 05 2017, 3:57 pm; edited 1 time in total

sequoia

Tue, Dec 05 2017, 3:53 pm

youngishbear wrote:

That all people are people.

(Not everyone in the diability community (if that is even a term that can be used on such a vast and heterogeneous population) appreciates being turned into inspiration [filth].)

That.

amother

Babyblue

Tue, Dec 05 2017, 4:01 pm

youngishbear wrote:

FWIW I asked DS if I could tell people about what he said before posting this here and he agreed.

But I take your point.

However please remember that this isa spinoff from (ie reaction to) a comment which said that I should have been sterilized before he was born.

youngishbear

Tue, Dec 05 2017, 4:06 pm

amother wrote:

FWIW I asked DS if I could tell people about what he said before posting this here and he agreed.

But I take your point.

I was not criticizing chas veshalom! I think that you shared sometuing adorable and inspirational, regardless of the source.

This was a concept I recently learned so I simply answered your question. I'm sorry if it came across snarky.

southernbubby

Tue, Dec 05 2017, 4:11 pm

amother wrote:

Smart kid and very perceptive! Those without a disability need to thank Hashem that they have full use of their faculties, which is what I learn anytime I deal with someone that Hashem in his wisdom decided to challenge.

amother

Babyblue

Tue, Dec 05 2017, 4:12 pm

youngishbear wrote:

I probably overreacted. Sorry. It is a VERY good point, thank you for making it.

Please remember this whole thread was in reaction to a comment on another thread that people with HFA and aspergers should be sterilized out of existence. Just trying to prove that we are not JUST burdens on the world.

southernbubby

Tue, Dec 05 2017, 4:22 pm

amother wrote:

Everyone that read azure's post felt that it was ridiculous, and worse. That poster is not in charge of the world or in charge of who has children. People with HFA are able to have and raise children, but there is possibly a genetic component so the children could end up with the disorder, but again, those children will learn to adapt and could live a happy life.

It is not the same thing as advocating sterilization for a profoundly handicapped woman who may be at the mercy of those in a care facility who might , chas v' sholem, violate her. The parents in those situations are given POA and need to act in good faith for the sake of the helpless woman who may have the mental and physical ability of an infant.

amother

Babyblue

Tue, Dec 05 2017, 4:28 pm

southernbubby wrote:

I agree with this. There are people who need protecting from all sorts of things.

But I am also sure that there are many other people who think like azure on that other thread (sometimes when I am "having a bad day" ie full of yetzer Hara about a difficult situation )- I also even think like that. So I wanted to do something positive to counteract that view.

southernbubby

Tue, Dec 05 2017, 4:37 pm

amother wrote:

There are probably some people on here who think that sterilization is merely a matter of choice but it is actually a big halachic shailah and is usually only done if pregnancy would threaten the life of the woman.

Now if someone, even someone who is not impaired in any way, cannot raise a large family, and they do it anyway in such a way that others are forced to help them or accommodate them, then there are probably people who think that they should no longer have children. But it would be wrong to say, before any children are born, that someone who may have a difficult time should be sterilized. There are some people who need to get a heter about limiting their family size but only those very close to the situation are in a position to encourage that.

amother

Babyblue

Tue, Dec 05 2017, 4:45 pm

Oh and azure- I hope you don't feel bad about this thread. I once had a whole thread started against me because I asked someone how old their child was before relying to a post, and I found that upsetting. Not meaning to upset you - just pointing out that there may ve another pov.

amother

Khaki

Tue, Dec 05 2017, 4:48 pm

I also have a son with HFA who is 6 and we had a similar conversation recently. It turns out, I talk too much about what I'm NOT good at (ex- ask Abba to fix it, Imma is not good at fixing, I'll try to draw it, but I'm really not good at drawing, I'm terrible at math etc). Well, he recently told me, you're always talking about all the things you're bad at, what are you good at? Forced me to come up with a list of things I'm good at, with his help. Turns out, I'm good at a lot of things!

youngishbear

Tue, Dec 05 2017, 6:32 pm

I should probably do a spinoff...

Again, not trying to be negative, just informative. Forced sterilization (including sterilization of people not really able to consent) is now considered a heinous act of discrimination. Some even have very strong negative opinions regarding services such as Dor Yeshorim because the underlying principal is a form of eugenics. So I've learned recently.

If you dig a little into history, you can read how the Nazis used American eugenics (a horrible chapter in itself) as the rationalization and foundation for their horrific acts, which began with sterlization of the "Aryan" "feeble-minded" and other "undesirables." Part of the "reason" for exterminating the Jewish people was in order to prevent us from "contaminating" their "superior" genes. I find it sad that a Jew could endorse such lines of "logic" regarding disability.
Sad

(Whew I'm running out of quotation marks here.)

amother

Babyblue

Tue, Dec 05 2017, 6:45 pm

youngishbear wrote:

(Whew I'm running out of quotation marks here.)

Yeah I can see both sides. Wrote a paper about this at university actually. best thing would obviously be to keep th creeps away from the woman.

Sometimes I guess people adopt the next best but surer solution.

I would say that if you sterilize a woman to protect *her* it is different than protecting *the world* from her and people like her.

But maybe not. We used to try to breed out black people and thought that was in their best interests.

southernbubby

Tue, Dec 05 2017, 6:45 pm

youngishbear wrote:

(Whew I'm running out of quotation marks here.)

What if the pregnancy could harm or kill them? I think that may be a factor in the concern about women who are helpless and bedridden and who are living in care facilities.

youngishbear

Tue, Dec 05 2017, 6:53 pm

southernbubby wrote:

What if the pregnancy could harm or kill them? I think that may be a factor in the concern about women who are helpless and bedridden and who are living in care facilities.

To be honest, I haven't developed strong opinions on the topic as much as I've become aware that many people with disabilities have very strong opinions on the topic, so that's what I shared.

I'm sure each case is unique. It's very different to say "our policy is to do this to women who are like that" than it is to say "in this particular case the woman was in such and such condition with this and that vulnerability and the best medical decision was to do that."

There was Supreme Court ruling on the issue in 1927. It wasn't pretty.