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Advice Needed re: mixing up "b" and "d" etc.

 
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amother




Olive


Post  Wed, Dec 06 2017, 9:28 am
Hi,
My 8 1/2 year-old- daughter is mixing up "b" and "d" when writing words. She also often confuses the "gimmel" and "zayin" in Hebrew script. Any advice on how to remediate that? Also, could it be a sign of an underlying vision/OT issue? Her handwriting happens to be pretty bad, don't know if it's related... Thanks a lot!
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shabbatiscoming









  


Post  Wed, Dec 06 2017, 9:46 am
It can also be a sign of a learning disability, not for sure, but can be, not necessarily vision / OT.

Also, many kids do this. I think it would be the most sensible to talk to the teachers and find out what is age appropriate and go from there.
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BabsB









  


Post  Wed, Dec 06 2017, 9:48 am
My son did this too, and his teacher said it was normal. A year later and he still does it, but much less frequently. What does her teacher say?
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amother




Babypink


Post  Wed, Dec 06 2017, 9:55 am
Mirrored writing such as reversing b and d is very common and isn’t such a concern up till 3rd grade. It may not be a visual perception issue. Does your daughter stay on the lines when she’s writing? Does she confuse or reverse numbers for example 27 becomes 72 and vice versa?
This can also be a sign of a learning disability such as dyslexia. I would suggest you speak to her teacher and see what she says. If there is no other concern aside from a messy handwriting and reversing d and b and zayin and gimmel I wouldn’t be too concerned.
Practice one letter at a time. Let her master b and then continue onto d. Doing th m simultaneously can be confusing.
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Ilovechoumous









  


Post  Wed, Dec 06 2017, 9:58 am
this is such a common issue. no need to think that there is anything beyond. there are simple tricks to remember, I think the hand way is the best one:
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/204843483022740839/

try to find something similar for gimmel and zayin
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seeker









  


Post  Wed, Dec 06 2017, 10:01 am
Almost definitely related to messy handwriting in general. Are there other issues that would suggest visual/spatial/motor difficulties? If not, then I would suggest seeing an OT who would be willing to give a one-time consultation to look at what the DD is doing and give you exercises to try for it.
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mommyla









  


Post  Wed, Dec 06 2017, 10:29 am
I still have to think twice before I write a gimmel or zayin Very Happy and I have neat handwriting and no learning disabilities. Have her practice it at home, if she doesn't have any other learning issues she'll probably get the hang of it pretty quickly. Draw a bed out of the word bed... little tricks like that are handy.
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amother




Olive


Post  Wed, Dec 06 2017, 10:42 am
She's in third grade already. Her teachers aren't overly concerned, however I am. I find that they tend to brush away what they perceive as minor problems in a child who's otherwise doing well.... I spoke to a second-grade teacher who said that although many children start off 2nd grade mixing up b and d, it's rare that a child should still be doing so at the end of 2nd grade...
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pause









  


Post  Wed, Dec 06 2017, 10:45 am
I was told to make sure the child knows one letter very well. Instead of teaching the difference between the two, focus on visual hints to teach either one very well and then the other falls into place. It also gets confusing because the bump of the capital D is on the same side as the one on the lower case b. So you need separate hints for the capital of whichever letter you choose to focus on.
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amother




Babypink


Post  Wed, Dec 06 2017, 10:46 am
amother wrote:
She's in third grade already. Her teachers aren't overly concerned, however I am. I find that they tend to brush away what they perceive as minor problems in a child who's otherwise doing well.... I spoke to a second-grade teacher who said that although many children start off 2nd grade mixing up b and d, it's rare that a child should still be doing so at the end of 2nd grade...


I would suggest getting her an OT evaluation and see if that helps give you some clarity and direction. It is rare for a 3rd grader to still be reversing but it’s not very concerning if there are no other visual or learning deficiencies. An evaluation will help you to determine if this is the case.
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amother




Amber


Post  Wed, Dec 06 2017, 10:51 am
amother wrote:
She's in third grade already. Her teachers aren't overly concerned, however I am. I find that they tend to brush away what they perceive as minor problems in a child who's otherwise doing well.... I spoke to a second-grade teacher who said that although many children start off 2nd grade mixing up b and d, it's rare that a child should still be doing so at the end of 2nd grade...


If everything else is fine...

Two of my kids mixed up their b's and d's until a very late age. My ten year old still mixes them up sometimes. He's actually been getting OT therapy from when he was about three months old, but b'h now in school there are no issues, except for this, and the fact that he's a bit messy. (My point is that all that OT didn't fix this particular problem). It could be an OT issue, but if all else is ok, I don't know that even an OT would recommend help.

Evaluations always give clarity, so if you want to spend the time and money... but if she's doing well, why bother?
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cm









  


Post  Wed, Dec 06 2017, 11:30 am
We used Handwriting Without Tears at home with fabulous results. The program was developed by an OT who gives very clear instructions, including a script to follow, for using the method, and it only takes a few minutes a day. My family's experience was with a younger child, but if there are no other problems requiring professional intervention it can't hurt to try. The smiley-face on the slate helps the writer orient the letters without having to identify left/right (I'm not sure that's part of the curriculum for older learners, but it works).

As a young child I learned to differentiate gimmel and zayin by noticing that a gimmel, if you continue the straight line, looks sort of like a lower-case "g." If she can write "g" reliably without mirroring, maybe that would work for her. There is also a Hebrew Handwriting Without Tears module, but I have limited experience with it.
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seeker









  


Post  Wed, Dec 06 2017, 11:49 am
Does she confuse these letters during reading or only when writing?

In isolation, it's not a major issue which is why the teachers aren't concerned, but as the parent I think you are right for being proactive. By 8 1/2 we do developmentally expect most children to have outgrown reversals. So while it's not alarming, it is appropriate to start looking into explanations and working on improving it.
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amother




Olive


Post  Wed, Dec 06 2017, 11:57 am
Thank you everyone for your advice! If I was positive that it's only this problem in isolation, I'd be fine with it. It's just hard to imagine that a child can be completely fine and just can't possibly get the b and d straight when they're almost 9.... And there's also the issue of the messy handwriting. I'm nervous that there's an underlying issue that I'm missing... Also, I forgot to mention that her words are not always on the line, and that she's constantly erasing and rewriting. Dunno what that means, if anything at all....
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amother




Olive


Post  Wed, Dec 06 2017, 11:58 am
I doubt she mixes up the b and d when reading, as she probably reads most words by sight by now...
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amother




Amber


Post  Wed, Dec 06 2017, 12:21 pm
amother wrote:
Thank you everyone for your advice! If I was positive that it's only this problem in isolation, I'd be fine with it. It's just hard to imagine that a child can be completely fine and just can't possibly get the b and d straight when they're almost 9.... And there's also the issue of the messy handwriting. I'm nervous that there's an underlying issue that I'm missing... Also, I forgot to mention that her words are not always on the line, and that she's constantly erasing and rewriting. Dunno what that means, if anything at all....


Like I said, my 10 year old son has this problem in isolation, b'h. He's messy, though, and it's probably correlated, but he's doing extremely well in yeshiva in every other area, b'h. Like I said, he's been getting OT for different issues over the years, and this is what's left. It does seem to be a problem in isolation.
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salt









  


Post  Thu, Dec 07 2017, 8:10 am
Ilovechoumous wrote:


try to find something similar for gimmel and zayin


I remembered gimel and zayin by remembering that the round part of the Gimel, faces the same way as the round part of a capital letter G.
And then zayin is the other way.
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