Teacher taking away recess

33055

Thu, Dec 07 2017, 6:28 pm

InnerMe wrote:

First things first. So what are you???? Come on, you can't keep on telling us what you're not, what is it that you are? And btw, I was thinking when I wrote that you may not be a teacher, but I figured if that's the case I'm addressing "you" not as in Squishy, but as in "people."

And you are right. Totally and completely right that there are stuff that need to change with certain systems in school. I wish we can pop a magic pill and have them all poof, but untill that happens were here debating this on this thread.

And really, I am really curious where you have all this info from, and how you can be so sure the exact differences between "our" schools and theirs. Of course, you don't need to answer..

And also, I do think that your'e stand on this specific recess issue is pretty reasonable. You specifically mentioned upper elementary, and also that it for a 5 minute total. I guess I just don't agree with blaming teaching methods on all outside factors but ourselves. I mean, think about it there are so many women on this thread themselves who surely teach in "those" schools. And yet, most are saying that there are other solutions. But you seem focused on the perils our the system of *those* schools.

That said- I do think that is a worthy topic of discussion. And I am all upping the education quality of our schools..

Lastly, you must be super talented. Seriously. If people think you are a lawyer. And some think you are an accountant. And some that you are teachers..that means you present with knowledge in all these areas.

LOL - I have a good education, lots of time, and know how to get answers. I can also speak on medicine if you like. Rolling Eyes

I was not meaning to absolve teachers from responsibility. I am not opposed to engaging the students in multi-sensory lessons. I not opposed to teachers using positive methods to teach.

I got involved in this thread because I think it is unfair to ban something that is effective and doesn't cost the teachers money.

Administration is protective of what goes on in their schools. They protect their product which I understand. I don't think they are honest with the parents.

cnc

Thu, Dec 07 2017, 6:36 pm

InnerMe wrote:

Anyone can present with knowledge if they pretend that they know what they're talking about. That doesn't mean that what they write is factual. It's the Internet, take everything with a grain of salt.

cnc

Thu, Dec 07 2017, 6:37 pm

Squishy wrote:

LOL - I have a good education, lots of time, and know how to get answers. I can also speak on medicine if you like. Rolling Eyes

I'm sure that you can. Google doesn't make someone a doctor.

amother

Apricot

Thu, Dec 07 2017, 8:09 pm

ceebee wrote:

What are your thoughts on students losing all or part of recess for misbehavior? This type of discipline really bothers me as kids today dont nearly move around as much as they need to. Jewish schools have less recess and gym time than public schools because of the double curriculum. Not sure what the teacher thinks more sitting will do to a child who already is restless from the lack of moving around.

I have never been a fan of this sort of punishment. It's cruel to children. I think teachers really have no idea how CRUCIAL it is for kids to MOVE!

InnerMe

Fri, Dec 08 2017, 9:56 am

cnc wrote:

Of course. It's just that when someone presents their opinions in these areas as fact.. it's logical to assume that said person has personal experience. Everyone's entitled to their opinions, but I dunno. When people do this it rubs me the wrong way. Sorry, Squishy. Nothing personal against you.

InnerMe

Fri, Dec 08 2017, 10:03 am

Squishy wrote:

LOL - I have a good education, lots of time, and know how to get answers. I can also speak on medicine if you like. Rolling Eyes

Ok, I agree with what you said in this post.
Not sure what that eye roll was for. Like I said in your posts you make it seem as if you have experience. You write so surely, and absolutely, and detailed that yes, one speaks that way when one has experience. Or that's the way it should be.

I guess that's my personal soapbox.

seeker

Fri, Dec 08 2017, 10:43 am

Squishy wrote:

Same here. I agree that taking away recess is not a first-line strategy. And I can't argue with the sentiment that most teachers who take away recess probably need to take it as a sign to rethink their positive, proactive engagement and motivation strategies.

But at the same time I don't think anyone should go up in arms on something like this. Teachers are under an extreme amount of scrutiny, pressure, judgment, and limitations as it is - and for good reason, since they are entrusted with a very delicate job. It doesn't serve anyone to find more things to criticize. If a child is sitting out the entire recess or having time out of recess on a regular basis, then that's an issue. But that's not a reason to disqualify the entire idea.

As much as positive strategies are the starting point and the ideal, they still need to be balanced out by something more forceful. We want kids to want to do the right thing, we want it to be engaging and interesting, but they also need to know that it's not optional. They can't just stop doing the right thing because they don't feel like it that day, or because they lost interest in the positive reinforcement, or that particular lesson isn't interesting to their particular preferences. It's unrealistic to expect the teacher to have every single lesson equally engaging to every single student, and it's unhelpful to students to let them think that life always needs to be fun. If all goes well then you shouldn't need to use the consequences often, but the consequences do need to be there enough to show that school performance/participation/respect are not optional. And there are precious few effective consequences left - a portion of recess is just about the safest one. It doesn't affect anyone's body or property, it does not involve any personal insult or verbal punishment, it doesn't interfere with positive relationships with parents or principals, and it doesn't rely on the parent's or principals backing which is often not at all assured.

So yes, you can argue against using recess as a punishment. But it would be smart to consider the context and choose your battles.

33055

Fri, Dec 08 2017, 10:44 am

InnerMe wrote:

I have done research on this subject, have a pretty good memory, spoke to government officials in Albany and locally and the top educational experts in the nation on the RW educational system. I also live locally, have children in the system, and listen when people speak about the other schools.

I am not as educational consultant, nor do I work for any advocacy group.

I care deeply about our children. And I wish they could get the same opportunities I had. But it isn't fair to dump on the educators without offering alternatives. Our educational system has built in inertia <---- (opinion based on observations). Sorry my passion made me seem like I am pontificating.

Blue jay

Fri, Dec 08 2017, 11:21 am

seeker wrote:

I've only ever seen the opposite - teacher saying something like "If you think this is recess and continue talking to your friends now, then you will need that much less recess later." And hopefully they stop talking because they would rather have the recess.

I speak only from my experience. I find that if I give "punishments" to my class I lose their control and respect. Rather, I do ALOT of trouble shooting before I set foot into my classroom. I question the momentum of my lesson and the ability of students level of comprehension and learning needs. Seating plans and routines are so important. When a student challenges the system, I find an action that addresses the situation.

For example, my 4th graders know that they are only allowed to sharpen their pencils during "Do now" time. If a student gets up during instruction time to sharpen their pencil, I need only to remind them of the class procedure. What would a teacher without a routine have done? He or she would begin to yell " Why are you sharpening your pencil now while I am teaching! Cant you see how rude that is! No recess for you!.."

Blue jay

Fri, Dec 08 2017, 11:36 am

seeker wrote:

Also, when Students are talking out of turn, I immediately ask the students what they should be doing right now. I focus on getting them back on task.

Some other questions I ask myself:
How many students are talking out of turn. Is it the whole class? Well, maybe I need to break the instructions down again so that they all understand.

Is it a small group? Has this been a consistent problem. Should I change their seats?

Is it one student? Does this student need to be placed in a different seat away from friends and closer to teachers desk.

I also ask myself, why should the students be quiet? What should they be doing at that specific moment.
I really try my best to avoid telling the children to "be quiet" Rather I tell them specifically, please work quietly on page so and so.

SixOfWands

Fri, Dec 08 2017, 11:54 am

QueenBee3 wrote:

You sound like an amazing and dedicated teacher. The kids in your classes are lucky.

(My kids have, over the years, also been blessed with some wonderful teachers. We're very lucky.)

amother

Cerulean

Fri, Dec 08 2017, 2:36 pm

InnerMe wrote:

You're still new here, but this is just how this poster talks. She has very narrow experience in one very insular community and some very extreme schools and is comfortable broadly applying her experiences in that limited world to the entire broader Jewish world.

InnerMe

Fri, Dec 08 2017, 2:49 pm

seeker wrote:

I like your balanced outlook, seeker. I agree that teachers need to get our utmost respect and support, and appreciation, they have lots to juggle, and put in much energy and resources into teaching.