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Forum -> Working Women -> Teachers' Room
How to like (or at least not hate) this one kid in my class
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amother
Aubergine


 

Post Wed, Dec 20 2017, 8:25 pm
I have been a teacher for many years. I have always had kids in the class that could be seen as annoying or frustrating emotionally, behaviorally, etc and I have never had any issues with being patient and fair with them. I liked them despite any issues and I truly do care about every student.

This year, I have a student who is really challenging me. The chutzpah and level of disrespect is very personal. The comments are always targeting my stupid lessons or how bad of a teacher I am. I don't get angry or take them personally but I am so so frustrated with the behavior. The principal has spoken to this student so many times. The parents have been called. There have been so many rewards and consequences, yet this child is out to get me. I tried to win her over. I tried giving her extra opportunities for power and flexibility, complimenting. The student is extremely bright and there are no learning or emotional issues or dysfunctional home. She is just very defiant and stubborn.

I never felt that I didn't want a student in my class before. This is new. I have had extremely challenging students but I always still cared about them. For some reason this became so personal. This student is set to destroy my life and disobey in every possible way.

How can I care about the student? I only see that there is no reason for this behavior - it isn't like this to other teachers, there is nothing going on in this kid's life. I'm her entertainment. She loves it. I don't show her it affects me. I tell her calmly to leave the room or other consequence. But she knows. And she loves that.
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amother
Copper


 

Post Wed, Dec 20 2017, 8:34 pm
Nurtured Heart approach.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=r1_OOwJgXFY
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amother
Lavender


 

Post Wed, Dec 20 2017, 8:38 pm
amother wrote:
.... I only see that there is no reason for this behavior - it isn't like this to other teachers, there is nothing going on in this kid's life. I'm her entertainment. She loves it. I don't show her it affects me. I tell her calmly to leave the room or other consequence. But she knows. And she loves that.


I see differently. She is there FOR YOU. Sent by G-d FOR YOU. To push you to somewhere you have never been. Perhaps aa a kappara for something in this or a previous life. But YOU are the reason. So make the most of the opportunity! Others will advise you how- I have no idea. Good luck.
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Bnei Berak 10




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Dec 21 2017, 3:02 am
OP, do you get support from your school? And what abt the parents, what do they do? I mean, if the principal him/herself has to get involved then I find the matter serious.
Sometimes expel is the only solution.
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amother
Tangerine


 

Post Thu, Dec 21 2017, 3:30 am
Bnei Berak 10 wrote:
OP, do you get support from your school? And what abt the parents, what do they do? I mean, if the principal him/herself has to get involved then I find the matter serious.
Sometimes expel is the only solution.


Have you ever considered the consequences of expelling a child from school? Extreme humiliation, the high potential that they'll cv"s go OTD, the liklihood of that student never being allowed into a regular frum school again, the creation of shalom bayis problems at home, the possibility that that child will end up in serious trouble (drugs, etc.). You don't just expell a child from school because they're difficult or disruptive.

Please research Rabbi Zechariah Wallerstein and listen to the Rabbi's talks on the emotional, psychological and spiritual inpact of expelling children from school. Rabbi Wallerstein says expelling a stusent can be compared to murder, it's so serious.
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amother
Cobalt


 

Post Thu, Dec 21 2017, 3:32 am
According to Rav Shteinman Z"L this is exactly the type of student for which you earn olam haba. Like her for the eternal reward she is earning you.
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amother
Lavender


 

Post Thu, Dec 21 2017, 4:01 am
amother wrote:
According to Rav Shteinman Z"L this is exactly the type of student for which you earn olam haba. Like her for the eternal reward she is earning you.


Love love love this. Do you have a link to more about this?
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Bnei Berak 10




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Dec 21 2017, 4:25 am
amother wrote:
Have you ever considered the consequences of expelling a child from school? Extreme humiliation, the high potential that they'll cv"s go OTD, the liklihood of that student never being allowed into a regular frum school again, the creation of shalom bayis problems at home, the possibility that that child will end up in serious trouble (drugs, etc.). You don't just expell a child from school because they're difficult or disruptive.

Please research Rabbi Zechariah Wallerstein and listen to the Rabbi's talks on the emotional, psychological and spiritual inpact of expelling children from school. Rabbi Wallerstein says expelling a stusent can be compared to murder, it's so serious.


A school is a school. There are limits to what they are supposed to tolerate. A teacher is a human being too!!! A school is not supposed to be responsible for this child's life until 120 and they certainly cannot be responsible of he shlom bayit of the family! I am very much asking: Where are the parents?? They have the largest part and responsibility of their child's upbringing.
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amother
Cobalt


 

Post Thu, Dec 21 2017, 6:09 am
To Lavendar - this is the quote I saw but I don't have a way to verify:

מארבעת התלמידים הטובים בכיתה יש למורה עולם הזה
בזכות ארבעת התלמידים הבעייתיים בכיתה יקבל המורה עולם הבא.
ועל שאר הכיתה הוא מקבל משכורת...
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WhatFor




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Dec 21 2017, 6:36 am
You say that the child has no issues at home causing this, but I don't think anyone can truly know. Maybe she's experienced something else that even her family doesn't know about. Maybe she has a personality disorder.

In any of case, is she seeing a therapist? Her behavior is antisocial, so whatever is causing it, she should be seeing one.
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amother
Lavender


 

Post Thu, Dec 21 2017, 7:14 am
amother wrote:
To Lavendar - this is the quote I saw but I don't have a way to verify:

מארבעת התלמידים הטובים בכיתה יש למורה עולם הזה
בזכות ארבעת התלמידים הבעייתיים בכיתה יקבל המורה עולם הבא.
ועל שאר הכיתה הוא מקבל משכורת...


Fantastic.
Thanks!
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saw50st8




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Dec 21 2017, 7:41 am
Have you ever asked her why she enjoyed being disrespectful?
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naomi2




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Dec 21 2017, 7:50 am
You tried the punishing route and it didn't work, maybe try to shower her with love even if you don't feel it. I think she knows you can't stand her even though she initiated this cycle. Maybe try to break it? Maybe have a heart to heart talk with her. Take her for ice cream and ask why she's behaving like this. If it's allowed obviously.
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amother
Slateblue


 

Post Thu, Dec 21 2017, 7:55 am
Can she moved up a grade?
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PinkFridge




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Dec 21 2017, 8:24 am
WhatFor wrote:
You say that the child has no issues at home causing this, but I don't think anyone can truly know. Maybe she's experienced something else that even her family doesn't know about. Maybe she has a personality disorder.

In any of case, is she seeing a therapist? Her behavior is antisocial, so whatever is causing it, she should be seeing one.


Yes.
OP, you mention rewards and punishments. Has any of this been through a professional? Does the school have a guidance counselor? (Ours calls the gc a feelings teacher.)
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amother
Tangerine


 

Post Thu, Dec 21 2017, 8:53 am
Bnei Berak 10 wrote:
A school is a school. There are limits to what they are supposed to tolerate. A teacher is a human being too!!! A school is not supposed to be responsible for this child's life until 120 and they certainly cannot be responsible of he shlom bayit of the family! I am very much asking: Where are the parents?? They have the largest part and responsibility of their child's upbringing.


Ok... These are all very good points, but they don't really address my main points. Where did I say there shouldn't be limits? Obviously limits need to stand. But a child who behaves difficultly is not a case for expulsion.

A school is responsible if an action they take ruins a child's self-esteem and/or creates shalom bayis problems. Otherwise who else should be responsible for the school's choices?
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Jewishfoodie




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Dec 21 2017, 9:11 am
Firstly, I think it's awesome that you are able to express honestly, that a student is too difficult for your patience. Too many times, the problem starts because a teacher is too prideful to admit this.
Let me try please, to bring perspective. No child lives in a vacuum. Ever. All their behavior comes from something or somewhere. Please G-d, let it not come from abuse, drugs, bad friends or bad examples at home. But chances are, you can be her hero. Don't ever let her break you. For all we know, you were put right in her path because HaShem knew you could help her. I agree with all the Imas who say, "kill" her with kindness. You may not see the results in your lifetime, but you will surely see the reward. Too many teachers give up on these neshamos which brings us our OTD, overdose, suicide plague. You sound like an awesome person. A person who wants to do Hashem's will. So ask for His guidance. I promise, your efforts will not be for naught. Every act of kindness perpetuates another. I believe this girl desperately needs an intervention but since it doesn't seem like what she's being offered one, you try to be her intervention. Love. Loads of love. She's showing all the signs and symptoms of loneliness and need for attention, and love. She's "crying out" and you picked up on it. You sound up to the task. May Hakadosh Baruch Hu provide you with the extra strength you will need to take care of this one, very lost and broken neshamah. You are awesome. I envy your reward. It's the reason I decided never to teach. It's because I'm terrifies I'd break someone accidentally and I couldn't live with that. I've watched teachers do that to students as a child. They never recovered.
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amother
Lilac


 

Post Thu, Dec 21 2017, 9:16 am
Sorry for the spelling. But I firmly believe she WANTS people to give up on her, for some self-deprecating reason. Do not fall for it. All any child needs in order to thrive is unconditional love. From everyone. It won't be easy. But it will save her IYH

Last edited by amother on Tue, Feb 25 2020, 11:38 pm; edited 1 time in total
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amother
Green


 

Post Thu, Dec 21 2017, 9:19 am
Op, how are you so sure everything in this kids life is nice and dandy?

This is my story.
I am the youngest of a double digits family.
All my siblings did well in school except for me and one brother but he was in a boys school. So not the same school.

All my sisters went to the same pre elementary middle and high school even to the same college. (The ones who went)

I was the only one to act up a bit. And I have dyslexia too. Very hard time learning to read and in two languages no less! When it was my chance to be chazan I'd daven from memory! When I had to say a posuk in tehilim I'd practice it for two days before. And that was in 4th grade! We started learning to read in pre1A.... I spent all my days practicing and it don't help. Different techniques more time. Different tutors. Nada.
To this day, I still have a hard time with word retrieval, word recognition and my ivra is on a 3Rd grade level. English is a lot better bh.
To add insult to injury, I was an unwanted and neglected child. Abused and used for my many talents and what I can give.

At some point I acted out a little like this kid.
All my teachers were flabbergasted. Some of them have taught my older sister. And others were my oldest sisters friends! They thought I came from the nicest family. Yeah sure!

In 3rd and in 4th grade I was seriously depressed. I'll never forget the kindness and patience of my afternoon teachers. (first year they taught and they were out of highschool!)
They always smiled at me. Just the smile brightened my day. I didn't get much smiles at home or from the morning teacher or friends.
They always found kind things to say. They had to work hard to invent stuff sometimes. But they fed my hungry soul.


My point of this rant is, you can NEVER know what is going on. Ever. My cousin was similar to you in school. Turns out, his father molested him for years.

Treat every kid with kindness, love her cuz she's hashems child.

And I'm so happy to see that you take your responsibility seriously. Your post here shows how much you care. Lucky her to have you for a teacher! I wish you were mine. Find a way to love her, to get thru to her. To show her that she is valued. And at the same time, things will surely change.
It is possible that all she wants is connection. And this is her twisted childish way of reaching out.
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amother
Mistyrose


 

Post Thu, Dec 21 2017, 9:25 am
Wow, OP, you got so much wonderful, thoughtful and loving advice. I have to say I'm impressed. My attitude would have been to remind myself that there are really only a few months left to suffer through and it will be over, and to try and have rachmanas on this girl knowing that with such an attitude she is in for a difficult life ahead. So glad I got out of teaching. Clearly not for me.
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