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Forum -> Relationships -> Simcha Section
Simchas and Proportions
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Bnei Berak 10




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jan 16 2018, 5:29 am
How important is it for you to participate in family and friends’ simcha? I read the thread where wife has a dilemma of going/not going to a simcha and DH doesn’t want her to go. Some posts mentioned a 30 minute delay and hosts were upset, a MIL who didn’t attend a simcha and still 20 yrs she regrets it, a sibling coming very late to a simcha and still 7 yrs after she feels hurt (but forgiven them).

I had a colleague who at all costs would fly overseas to join in a simcha despite lack of days off from work and no money (her explanation: “somebody else will pay if we don’t have the money”)

To me this is very foreign concept. A simcha invitation is an invitation and not an army draft.

People have been doing Bar Mitzvahs and weddings for as long as anyone can remember. It’s not a new thing. And still this attitude of thinking that the universe revolves around their simchas and HaShem yerachem if you don’t attend, you are doomed and will probably be disinherited by your parents.

I am the only one who thinks things are a bit too uptight and that simchas don’t need to be attended at all costs (especially if it’s overseas and you don’t have the vacation days and money)?
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DrMom




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jan 16 2018, 6:02 am
I agree with you. I was surprised by the attitudes on which many of the responses in that thread were based.
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etky




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jan 16 2018, 6:28 am
I haven't read the said threads but I agree with you too.
If participation is not a reasonable possibility, in this day and age there are also ways to be there 'virtually' and to feel part of things for however short a time.
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amother
Gold


 

Post Tue, Jan 16 2018, 6:38 am
I agree with you. I also like how you wrote an invitation is an invitation. Well, in my family an invitation is an army draft and not even just for simchas but for chanuka parties or other small gettogethers, it is mandatory.

I didnt go to some sibilings chasuna because I was overwhelmed with my twins. Yeah peopke say get help but I have nowhere to cut back to pay for it. But people can criticize and do however, they will not do my responsibilities so who are they to judge. Even if I didnt have little babies, does anyone know what im going through why I didnt attend?no.

It is not an aveira to not go to a simcha. My kids come first and im going through a lot that makes it impossible for me to attend simchas. If I could just show up in my pjs with no makeup....but I would never do that because I would hate myself.

In this day and age, people call themselves frum but then judge you badly just because you didnt attend their simcha??? What about dan lkaf zechs???
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amother
Blonde


 

Post Tue, Jan 16 2018, 7:06 am
I have several children, plus a baby. It's really difficult to get out on a weeknight right at bedtime, to attend a bar mitzvah or wedding. We cut back on only attending smachot of very close friends.
All of our siblings live overseas. We try our best to attend bar/bat mitzvahs but one nephew's bar mitzvah was the week of my due date; we actually called my in laws during the party to tell them the baby was born Smile
We do our best, but if the money isn't there and the timing doesn't work out, there's nothing we can do.
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unexpected




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jan 16 2018, 7:15 am
I think, especially in Boro Park, the attitude of all simchos are mandatory came after the war when ppl had so few surviving relatives and so few celebrations to attend that everyone jumped at the chance to go to a simcha. However, even as this attitude became entrenched ppl were rebuilding and having large families. Suddenly, there are multiple simchos every night and it's practically impossible to keep up. Our parents, who grew up without a gazillion cousins still feel it's important to attend while we say we need to stay home and tend our flocks
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amother
Brown


 

Post Tue, Jan 16 2018, 8:04 am
I agree with you when it comes to friends, but when it comes to family, while it's still not an "army draft" as you put it, it absolutely deserves every reasonable efforts to make it work. I honestly don't understand the attitude of well, what can I do when it comes to a sibling's wedding. It's your freaking sibling, there had better be an ironclad reason if you're not showing up to their wedding (like week of your due date and a flight away). And for first cousins a decent effort should be made as well. I don't know, maybe I feel this way because I don't have 12 siblings and 87 first cousins so it's easy for me to make the effort for the once or twice a year that there is a simcha.
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mommy3b2c




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jan 16 2018, 8:13 am
amother wrote:
I agree with you when it comes to friends, but when it comes to family, while it's still not an "army draft" as you put it, it absolutely deserves every reasonable efforts to make it work. I honestly don't understand the attitude of well, what can I do when it comes to a sibling's wedding. It's your freaking sibling, there had better be an ironclad reason if you're not showing up to their wedding (like week of your due date and a flight away). And for first cousins a decent effort should be made as well. I don't know, maybe I feel this way because I don't have 12 siblings and 87 first cousins so it's easy for me to make the effort for the once or twice a year that there is a simcha.


You are right. As with everything in life, there is a happy medium. If the wedding is overseas and you have 7 little kids, and absolutely no money then of course no one should be mad at you for not attending. But not attending a siblings simcha, because you are just to stressed to go, or because you feel they insulted you over some trivial matter. That’s plain dysfunctional.

Obviously, there’s the other extreme as well. You should not be guilted in to attending every first cousins wedding when you live two hours away, and there’s a wedding every week.

As with everything, the middle path is best.
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amother
Forestgreen


 

Post Tue, Jan 16 2018, 8:17 am
amother wrote:
I agree with you when it comes to friends, but when it comes to family, while it's still not an "army draft" as you put it, it absolutely deserves every reasonable efforts to make it work. I honestly don't understand the attitude of well, what can I do when it comes to a sibling's wedding. It's your freaking sibling, there had better be an ironclad reason if you're not showing up to their wedding (like week of your due date and a flight away). And for first cousins a decent effort should be made as well. I don't know, maybe I feel this way because I don't have 12 siblings and 87 first cousins so it's easy for me to make the effort for the once or twice a year that there is a simcha.


I agree with you and I do have 12 siblings and 87 first cousins...........not those exact numbers but just about.
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amother
Firebrick


 

Post Tue, Jan 16 2018, 8:32 am
DH has 1 sibling and only 3 first cousins, all of whom live locally. It's a small, tight knit family and you'd better believe that we show up for all simchas. I wouldn't exactly say that they're command performances, but we're excited to attend and participate because we know everyone well and simchas are few and far between.

I have a slightly larger family, but we definitely attend all simchas for immediate family. Sometimes we miss a bris for a cousin because of logistics but we try hard to make it if possible. It helps that we almost all live along the East coast even if we're not all in NY. We don't generally have to worry about the cost of plane tickets.

I can imagine that if both DH and DW come from large families and have frequent simchas then it becomes more difficult to attend all of them, especially if they aren't local.
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unexpected




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jan 16 2018, 8:47 am
amother wrote:
I agree with you when it comes to friends, but when it comes to family, while it's still not an "army draft" as you put it, it absolutely deserves every reasonable efforts to make it work. I honestly don't understand the attitude of well, what can I do when it comes to a sibling's wedding. It's your freaking sibling, there had better be an ironclad reason if you're not showing up to their wedding (like week of your due date and a flight away). And for first cousins a decent effort should be made as well. I don't know, maybe I feel this way because I don't have 12 siblings and 87 first cousins so it's easy for me to make the effort for the once or twice a year that there is a simcha.

Very well put
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SuperWify




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jan 16 2018, 8:58 am
I have missed 2 cousins weddings both times because they were during bein hazmanim and we were away.
I did however, make sure to attend a sheva brachos and give a nice gift. (And felt super bad).

A siblings simcha (in normal circumstances) should not be missed! (Unless they habe caused you tremendous pain etc or you had a baby the night before) I’m sure your parents would be happy to pay for a babysitter / flight etc.

The only people I knew who missed a siblings wedding:
1. My great uncle A”H- he was learning in EY and his parents told him if he wants to go learn he can, but they will not fly him in for his sisters (my grandma) wedding. And they didn’t. (Different Times then...)
2. A friend- she was in labor
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Bnei Berak 10




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jan 16 2018, 9:37 am
SuperWify wrote:

I’m sure your parents would be happy to pay for a babysitter / flight etc.



I tend to disagree with you a little bit. If parents have the means: wonderful. And what if parents can't come up with money for a flight, especially an overseas ticket? I oppose the concept of "if you can't pay for baby sitter/ticket ask your parents". Like my ex-colleague said: "Somebody else will pay for our tickets (from Israel to USA) since we can't pay but we must attend."

When does the monetary responsibility of parents end? Until 120?
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cozyblanket




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jan 16 2018, 9:52 am
My bil and sil (dh's brother) didn't fly from EY to the U.S. for our wedding and I don't hold it against them one bit. They didn't have the money and no one else could pay for it either. We live far from our family. Be h when we make a bar mitzvah, I don't expect them all to come. Some will, some won't. Its a hard trip with the mishpacha. Someone missing a simcha is disappointing, but I bless us all that these should be our worse problems!!
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amother
Blonde


 

Post Tue, Jan 16 2018, 9:59 am
Bnei Berak 10 wrote:
I tend to disagree with you a little bit. If parents have the means: wonderful. And what if parents can't come up with money for a flight, especially an overseas ticket? I oppose the concept of "if you can't pay for baby sitter/ticket ask your parents". Like my ex-colleague said: "Somebody else will pay for our tickets (from Israel to USA) since we can't pay but we must attend."

When does the monetary responsibility of parents end? Until 120?

My parents attitude is "you chose to move to Israel; we do not have the obligation to pay for you to visit."
They have never paid for me to come to any simcha or visit for any holiday or occasion.
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unexpected




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jan 16 2018, 10:07 am
I think EY is different because the amount of a ticket is truly not affordable for everyone. However when parents are making a simcha they should make every effort to help their struggling children so they can come to the simcha respectably. It really bothers me when a mother spends close to 2000 on a gown because she "doesn't have a choice" and then doesn't help out her child who really can't afford even the 25$ gowns from the gemach. Or when the ba'al simcha has certain expectations about what her grandchildren/children will wear and yet doesn't offer to help out
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amother
Gold


 

Post Tue, Jan 16 2018, 12:46 pm
amother wrote:
I agree with you when it comes to friends, but when it comes to family, while it's still not an "army draft" as you put it, it absolutely deserves every reasonable efforts to make it work. I honestly don't understand the attitude of well, what can I do when it comes to a sibling's wedding. It's your freaking sibling, there had better be an ironclad reason if you're not showing up to their wedding (like week of your due date and a flight away). And for first cousins a decent effort should be made as well. I don't know, maybe I feel this way because I don't have 12 siblings and 87 first cousins so it's easy for me to make the effort for the once or twice a year that there is a simcha.


By that's just it. You can't understand if you have a small family with only 1 to 2 simchas a year. I'm oldest and dh is oldest and we both have lots of sibilings. There are a lot of simchas bh.
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mommy3b2c




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jan 16 2018, 12:47 pm
amother wrote:
By that's just it. You can't understand if you have a small family with only 1 to 2 simchas a year. I'm oldest and dh is oldest and we both have lots of sibilings. There are a lot of simchas bh.


So you missed their weddings because you were to busy to go?
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amother
Bisque


 

Post Tue, Jan 16 2018, 1:24 pm
I also think the reason must be pretty ironclad if you are missing a sibling's wedding. Such reasons could include living two continents away and not having money for a ticket, giving birth that week, etc.
Otherwise, I do think it is just not ok to miss a sibling's wedding. Yes, even if you have 12 siblings. If you live in the same area and are just too busy or stressed to make it to a sibling's wedding, then you probably need professional help to get your life in order. You might be clinically depressed or otherwise in trouble. It's not normative, and regular everyday business is not an excuse to miss your own sibling's wedding.
(I would include nephews and nieces here, but I guess some of you have 100 of them on each side, and there could be very busy seasons. Still, one should make a huge effort to go).
BTW, if things are really hectic, then you can go to the wedding alone, and leave your spouse home to deal with the kids.
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Bnei Berak 10




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jan 16 2018, 1:24 pm
OP here: It's much more difficult to keep up with large numbers of simchas. My SIL for example marrying off before Purim. They need a very large hall. We have already declined Shabbos 7 brachot because it's such a large event. Only parents from both sides + g/parents + spouses of married children (not including babies or g/children and also not SIL's 2 siblings and her nieces/nephews or uncles/aunts from the grooms side, well the very closest family adds up to 46 ppl. We are talking numbers here! And with XL-families come a lot of simchas. At a point it is becoming difficult to attend everything.
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