Question about conversion process

amother

Olive

Thu, Jan 18 2018, 1:27 pm

I've always had this question and would appreciate if someone an enlighten me.

When a woman converts to Judaism, do the 3 dayanim watch her dunk in the Mikva?
I've read in passing a few times about it and it sounded like they were there.

I am respectfully asking.

(Anon because I've asked around IRL)

amother

Bronze

Thu, Jan 18 2018, 2:08 pm

The mikva is covered with a thick plastic. The dayanim come in when the convert is already in the water so they only see her head. The mikva attendant stands on the other side where she can see the convert dunks properly.

amother

Babyblue

Thu, Jan 18 2018, 2:20 pm

In my case, there was a mechitza, and the dayanim stood behind it. The mikva lady told them when it was safe for them to peek at the top of my head, and that was all they got to see. They relied on the mikva lady to announce "kosher" after I dunked, and they left the room before I came out of the water.

amother

Olive

Thu, Jan 18 2018, 2:25 pm

amother wrote:

Regarding the bolded - what do you mean by that?

amother

Dodgerblue

Thu, Jan 18 2018, 2:33 pm

amother wrote:

this is not universally done. For example - not done in Toronto.

amother

Jade

Thu, Jan 18 2018, 2:36 pm

For me, I wore a large fabric poncho, so that only my head was visible -- they only need to see that my head went under. Then they left, and I took off the poncho, and dunked twice more.

amother

Ecru

Thu, Jan 18 2018, 2:36 pm

For my conversion, I had to wear a very loose, long gown. I got in the mikvah with just the mikvah lady in the room, then the dayanim came in. I dunked once (can't remember whether it was once or 3 times) with the gown on with the dayanim and the ML watching, then the dayanim went out but were just the other side of the door. Then I took off the gown and dipped again with just the ML watching but the dayanim were listening for her to call "kosher."

amother

Olive

Thu, Jan 18 2018, 2:45 pm

amother wrote:

For me, I wore a large fabric poncho, so that only my head was visible -- they only need to see that my head went under. Then they left, and I took off the poncho, and dunked twice more.

Did you - or anyone here that went through the process- feel uncomfortable at all?

I'm not sure why but I'm so curious about it. I'm a FFB woman. I seems like to me that the process goes against what we are used to in terms of tznius. I know that it's per Halacha so it's a good thing but I would love some clarification.

amother

Jade

Thu, Jan 18 2018, 2:49 pm

amother wrote:

I didn't feel uncomfortable -- neither did the other giyoret I am friends with. I was totally covered except for my head. It's a little ... odd from a certain perspective, but there is really nothing un-tznius about it. I was so, so happy to be finally in the mikvah, I wouldn't have cared what they said I needed to do! lol I would be curious, too, if I were you:) All my non-Jewish friends and family were also curious!

amother

Jetblack

Thu, Jan 18 2018, 3:56 pm

I wore a full bathrobe into the mikvah, the dayanim came in and saw me in the mikvah, then went behind a curtain and I then removed the robe to dunk. (As you can imagine, the terry robe was a sopping wet mess.). The day I’m heard the ML say kasher for each dunk and then they exited the room.

I found it bizarre and while they couldn’t see anything it did feel untznius to be down in the water holding the robe while men came in. I was covered but I felt naked. It was a weird experience to be in the mikvah with men standing above. It was really uncomfortable and detracted from what, for me, was a very big moment.

Iymnok

Thu, Jan 18 2018, 4:02 pm

I was told thathere is a sheet with a hole in the middle. The sheet is spread over the surface of the water and the lady stands with her head emerging from the middle. When she goes under, they could see that she went under, but nothing else.
They also stand back so they only see her head, whereas the ML stands right at the edge.

amother

Blue

Thu, Jan 18 2018, 4:08 pm

in my case they were outside the door which was left open--- meaning they could hear everything but only the mikva lady saw me and "confirmed" everything.

I've never heard of any kind of covering, plastic or otherwise........ nor have I ever heard of them being there. That would be pretty crazy if you ask me, talk about tzius.......... Confused

amother

Jade

Thu, Jan 18 2018, 4:08 pm

That's so interesting -- I learned that the dayanim have to SEE your head go under! It helped for me that I was facing away from them. I was so wrapped up in the moment, and answering the questions that I didn't even feel like there were men there. ... I feel like it would have been weirder for me if I were clutching a robe closed. The poncho essentially acted like a sheet spread over the water -- it actually WAS a colored pattered sheet, just with a sewed hole in the middle.

thunderstorm

Thu, Jan 18 2018, 4:14 pm

My admiration for a giyoret just went up multiple notches. So many of us have issues dunking in front of a ML and here had to dunk in front of three rabbis! I never knew that this is the process ! Wow!

amother

Jetblack

Thu, Jan 18 2018, 4:21 pm

Actually the worst part was that when the dayanim came in, one of them decided to give me my final warning about joining the Jewish people, so I stood there cluthing my bathrobe while he told me how many people would want to kill my future children just because they’re Jewish. Honestly all I could think at that point was “well, that’s all fine by me so long as I don’t have to stand in the mikvah with 3 men peering down at me again.”

It was far from the serene spiritual moment I had expected. Oy.

amother

Jade

Thu, Jan 18 2018, 4:51 pm

amother wrote:

haha -- so funny how different people experience that same thing -- that was the best part for me. I almost started crying -- I was just SO glad to be finally doing it. But again, I probably would have felt differently clutching at a bathrobe:/ That would make me feel super exposed to have to be holding something to keep myself covered:( I felt so at peace under my sheet-poncho:)

amother

Olive

Thu, Jan 18 2018, 9:41 pm

Bizzydizzymommy wrote:

Agreed! Kol hakavod!!