S/O- Are Your Costumes Politically Correct?

Boca00

Thu, Jan 18 2018, 8:05 pm

I would never want people to be offended by our costumes, but I don't think your average person is offended if someone dresses up as their nationality. Unless it is done in a derogatory way, of course. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I could care less if all of you who live in other countries decided to dress up as American for Purim. (Actually, I'd love to see what you would do...)

Thoughts?

tigerwife

Thu, Jan 18 2018, 8:09 pm

When people say they are dressing up as another nationality, they usually mean traditional dress or religious garb. As far as I know, America has no traditional dress, unless you count colonial which is a few centuries old and based off European fashion of the time. College students from the US, Taiwan, or Sweden might dress identically.

I personally do not get offended unless the costume is highly satired.

SpottedBanana

Thu, Jan 18 2018, 8:15 pm

I'm fine with nationality; I draw the line at religion, which is why I would be offended at "Jew" costumes (or Muslim costumes, etc). No one should have that much emotional attachment to "national" dress. Religious dress, on the other hand, is presumably only worn because it carries a lot of meaning to the wearers.

Boca00

Thu, Jan 18 2018, 8:18 pm

SpottedBanana wrote:

Hmm, I hear that. Would you be ok with people dressing up as Israeli, then? Or as an Iraqi? Just wondering bec some countries and their religions are very intertwined.

causemommysaid

Thu, Jan 18 2018, 8:20 pm

This whole thing has gotten so out of hand.

Before Halloween Facebook was full of stupid PC articles telling white moms not to let their daughters dress like Moana because she is a Pacific Islander princess.

Ummmm I highly doubt 4 year old girls are trying to marginalize anyone's culture here. They simply fell in love with the Disney character and want to be her for Halloween.

When Frozen came out, white, black, and everything in between was dressing up like Elsa. Why is dressing up as a white character the only thing allowed these days?

simcha2

Thu, Jan 18 2018, 8:35 pm

I think asking if they're "politically correct"is trying to minimise the issue. What if your title were "are your costumes sensitive to others?".

Look, would you have your child dress as a paraplegic in a wheelchair? Or a blind person? I'm hoping you wouldn't. Not because by doing so you are mocking people who are in wheelchairs or are blind, but because we are sensitive to their feelings and recognise it could be hurtful or seen as mocking. The same goes for dressing in someone else's traditional garb.

Now, if someone dressed as a frum Jew for Halloween maybe you wouldn't find it offensive, but we can see how it could be seen as mocking. The same for everyone else. Not every individual will feel mocked, but some will, so why do it?

With regard to the Indian costume thread. I think that it is unnecessary to dress as a different race/culture, but if they are going to I hope it is limited to dress and no one darkens their skin or places a Bindi or red dot on their forehead, because that takes it to a whole new level of offensiveness (Not sure that's a word).

SpottedBanana

Thu, Jan 18 2018, 8:59 pm

Boca00 wrote:

Hmm, I hear that. Would you be ok with people dressing up as Israeli, then? Or as an Iraqi? Just wondering bec some countries and their religions are very intertwined.

I've never heard of any mode of dress that is particularly "Israeli" other than... sandals, I guess? When I think "national dress," I think of Mexican sombreros, Japanese kimonos, American baseball caps -- completely religionless.

ETA: dressing like an Israeli soldier, maybe? Why not?

Amarante

Thu, Jan 18 2018, 9:10 pm

SpottedBanana wrote:

I saw pictures of boys dressed up as Israeli soldiers from Purim pictures shot in Israel last year.

I don't think it is applicable anymore but I guess at one time there might have been a stereotypical Sabra/Kibbuznik.

You could dress as Wonder Woman as played by Gayot :-)

I don't think nationalities are generally offensive unless they have negative connotations - for whatever reason Dutch Girl or Boy; Russian Cossack; French sailor; aren't offensive but dressing as a cannibal with a bone through one's nose would probably be offensive.

In terms of America, it might be too subtle in the US but outside the US, I think a stereotype of a surfer dude or skateboarder with Van sneakers would be fun. Dressing as a preppie or in Lily Pulitzer clothing would also work as would a stereotypical sorority girl or cheerleader. I think all of those are very associated with US popular culture.

keym

Thu, Jan 18 2018, 9:54 pm

simcha2 wrote:

Look, would you have your child dress as a paraplegic in a wheelchair? Or a blind person? I'm hoping you wouldn't. Not because by doing so you are mocking people who are in wheelchairs or are blind, but because we are sensitive to their feelings and recognise it could be hurtful or seen as mocking.

Would you feel its ok for someone to dress as Bush, Obama, or Trump? Complete with those masks. Or is that considered mocking?

causemommysaid

Thu, Jan 18 2018, 11:35 pm

simcha2 wrote:

How is wearing a Chinese kimono the same as mimicking someone who is disabled? Ethnic dress has a long and rich history which others find fascinating and want to portray. Dressing up disabled is just mocking someone who struggles.

simcha2

Fri, Jan 19 2018, 12:20 am

causemommysaid wrote:

I assume you mean a Japanese kimono. I don't think there is anything wrong with wearing a kimono. I think there is something wrong in wearing a kimono to pretend to be Japanese.

Look, this is a cultural sensitivity that people feel or they think is "ridiculous". I'm not going to convince you. I think someone could dress up on Purim by using a wheelchair and legitimately believe they are not mocking someone's struggles but have always been fascinated by how it feels to be paralysed and this is a way of showing support to disabled people. Even if they honestly feel that, it doesn't make it right. The same with the cultural sensitivity.

DrMom

Fri, Jan 19 2018, 4:30 am

simcha2 wrote:

Ah, but if you dress in a kimono and are NOT Japanese and not trying to be Japanese, then you are guilty of "cultural appropriation." So basically, the latest rules of PC'ness say you can't wear a kimono unless you are Japanese. Hypnotized

Amarante

Fri, Jan 19 2018, 6:48 am

I think people are arguing for the sake of arguing.

Dressing in black face is offensive because of the history of black face - at least in the US. If one doesn't realize that, just accept that this is true and it has no taint of being PC.

Dressing in a kimono is not offensive. Dressing as a stereotype of a leering Japanese bucktooth person speaking broken English and speaking pidgin English IS offensive because one is adopting negative stereotypes which have a history of negative connotations.

Dressing up in a white sheet and hood is offensive. Dressing in high leather boots with a swastika and possibly having a German Shepherd on a leash is offensive - especially if one also goose steps and sticks out one's arm in a salute.

A little girl dressing as a Disney princess of any ethnicity is NOT offensive. Having a white actor use makeup to create slanted eyes or darkening the skin IS offensive because of a back history of using white actors to play people of color and relegating actors of color to playing maids and Stepin Fetchit.

Being Zeide and BUbbe is not offensive. But putting on a hook nose makeup and carrying a large bag of money as a stereotypical Jew would be offensive as portrayed by a non-Jew - I doubt any Jewish person would opt for that costume.

Is there a theme I am going for - yes the rule of reason where sane people all agree that such portrayals are not offensive or meant to cause harm or appropriating a culture for economic exploitation. If something has a history of stereotyping negatively just don't go there - I.e. there is a difference between honoring the Japanese culture by any woman dressing in a beautiful kimono with the elaborate hair and makeup - but don't cross the boundary of starting to mock the culture by then engaging in the stereotypical behavior of a simpering Geisha.