What would it take for you to call child services? S/O

WhatFor

Mon, Jan 22 2018, 3:42 pm

On the Turpin thread, there's some amount of criticism of neighbors for not calling cps. It's very easy to play Monday morning quarterback, but being truly honest with yourself: what would it take for you to call CPS on someone?

If you moved into a new house and saw it was filthy, do you truly see yourself calling cps and saying"hey, I just moved into a filthy house. You should check out the family that just lived here." ?

If a new family moves into your neighborhood with some kids and you barely see them, they mostly stay inside, would you call CPS to report that?

What if you try to make conversation with the kids and they barely answer you? Would you call CPS?

Would you call CPS if you saw a child rummaging through the garbage outside their house?

What if you saw the parents of this weird family marching some children in a circle at 3am? That's certainly strange. Being honest with yourself, if you saw that, would you pick up the phone and call CPS?

Imagine CPS showing up at your door because someone called to say any of the following things: your house was filthy; they saw your child looking in the garbage can outside your house; your kids never respond to them when they try to make conversation; they looked into your window and it seemed like your kids were engaged in a weird ritual at 3am; your kids hardly ever play outside.

Assume the particular reason was actually true: would you think that anonymous person was justified in calling CPS?

The only person I can see really blaming is the doctor, assuming the children exhibited malnutrition when the doctor saw them. Other than that, I think the primary people to blame are obviously the parents, and beyond that, the failing system that allows for kids to be homeschooled with zero oversight.

Maybe this is a different topic, but I understand that there's a tension between giving parents total freedom in raising their children and state oversight. Idk what the solution is, but clearly the system failed these children.

In any case, what would it take for you to call CPS?

Mon, Jan 22 2018, 3:55 pm

The system continuously fails lots and lots of children. Even if a child comes to school with torn clothing or gobbles up a plate of food in no time and takes second portions, it's only a red light. It still isn't hard proof, so each individual decides for themselves. Even when CPS is called, they also make many many mistakes in pinpointing where real abuse is happening. Tough question and tough situation. Personally, if I would be a neighbor for the Turpin family, I don't know if I would call based on what I see. I wonder what the smell outside the house was. That would be a missing link that I would use to make my decision. The house outside looks really nice and expensive. What's the smell, though. I would go to work in the morning and come home late in the evening, so likely wouldn't make anything of it. At 3 a.m. I'm fast asleep and wouldn't see their ritual.

amother

Mint

Mon, Jan 22 2018, 4:05 pm

Well, the only time I considered calling child services, I ended up actually choosing to do so. But it was not an easy decision, I suppose, until it was. I'll add that I'm a mandated reporter but had I been a neighbor I can only imagine I would have chosen to do the same thing.

Educated, well spoken, seemingly involved and concerned mother. Older boy who seemed perfectly cared for. Younger girl, about 2 years of age who kept presenting with injuries. First a black eye. Then a bruised and swollen nose. I can't remember the exact chronology, this was about 12 or so years ago.

There was always an explanation, the main one being some variation on clumsiness. OK, I can think of so many awful looking, yet innocuous injuries my own toddlers have sustained! So hard to jump to a conclusion of abuse, but one too many and your mind understandably starts going in that direction.

I was there to see the boy, but once I began to feel concerned, anytime the little girl wandered in I was desperate to lift her shirt to see if there was anything else visibly bruised.

About a week later there is the poor baby with her arm in a sling. I called that afternoon.

amother

Sienna

Mon, Jan 22 2018, 4:28 pm

It's a very tricky question, one that I'm dealing with IRL, my neighbor is constantly SCREAMING at her kids, even when she wakes them up in the morning, singing, it's way too loud!
She is slightly socially off, and has a too loud voice in general, but it looks like her kids are decently taken care of, and I never hear sounds of anything abusive going on.
It's really triggering to me, since my mother is also a shrieker, but she did hit
What I ask myself is wether involving anyone in my neighbor's situation is to the kids' benefit.

leah233

Mon, Jan 22 2018, 4:39 pm

CPS would never be my first call if I suspected abuse. If the neighbors are frum I would turn to people who are likely to be more familiar with the situation and more capable of helping than I am and would ask for their assessment and help.

I do not know what I would do about a non-Jewish neighbor. It would be much more difficult for me to notice something amiss with them to begin with.

amother

Saddlebrown

Mon, Jan 22 2018, 4:41 pm

The only time I came close to calling CPS was a family where one of the children had been in our care for a few months — informal foster care. We coordinated with the families who had taken in other children from the same parents (also informal foster care) and with local Rabbeim. The situation was clearly abusive. Unfortunately, before we had all our ducks in a row the mom and kids fled to another state.

WhatFor

Mon, Jan 22 2018, 4:42 pm

amother wrote:

I wouldn’t call CPS so fast; but I’d call my community Rav if I suspected something. I would not just ignore the situation. Let the Rav do the dirty work and take responsibility.

Even if they weren't Jewish? Would your rav think it's strange that you contacted him for that or would he involve himself in the affairs of non Jewish families in the community?

Blessing1

Mon, Jan 22 2018, 4:47 pm

As another poster mention, I'd talk to a Rav or try to get askanim involved first. We had neighbors that have 12 kids, the older ones got out of the house & told us horror stories about what the father is doing to them. They would hide under the bed when he was home. He threw them down the stairs multiple times, among many other horrible things. The mother is bipolar or manic. We neighbors decided that if we called child services, the kids would be "in the system" & they would only traumatize the kids more. We got some big askanim involved & all the kids where placed in competent foster homes & they get together from time to time. Everyone is together with a sibling or more. They are so happy.
So I would think twice about calling CPS.

trixx

Mon, Jan 22 2018, 4:50 pm

amother wrote:

Curious what the end of this story was

Miri7

Mon, Jan 22 2018, 5:46 pm

IIRC the Turpin’s neighbor in Texas said that the house was so filthy that the family moved into a double wide trailer on the property. I’d call if kids were obviously living in such filth.

Also, if I moved into a home to find excrement on the walls, I’d inform the authorities. That’s insane and a sign that the adults are not willing or capable of providing a safe environment for children.

I may not call CPS, but would call police to do a welfare check for the kids.

SixOfWands

Mon, Jan 22 2018, 6:02 pm

Miri7 wrote:

The people who bought the house the Turpins had previously lived in?

It was a foreclosure. Sometimes people purposely trash homes if they're forced to move. My brother bought a home from a family that was about to be foreclosed on, and they trashed it before the closing -- smearing things on the wall, letting the kids draw on walls and things, etc.

amother

Mint

Mon, Jan 22 2018, 6:18 pm

trixx wrote:

Curious what the end of this story was

I wish I knew. I think about it from time to time. But after the call, the mom canceled all of the therapies for the older boy. I never returned to the house.

It wasn't a Jewish family so there were no overlapping communities that might have allowed for a glimpse into the situation going forward.

I felt awful for the mom. I'm sure it was not her. But she needed to be this baby's protector. At the time I thought it was the grandfather, who came across as a very forbidding individual. He would get upset if this baby "disturbed" the older boy's therapy session. But I never witnessed anything overt and would certainly not have called acs based on that.

OutATowner

Mon, Jan 22 2018, 7:23 pm

Just wanted to add-people are afraid of kids going into the system, and rightfully so. Frum families should, no-NEED to register as foster parents for emergency situations. You don't have to commit for long term foster care, you can put yourself down for respite. Sometime cps does need to get involved, and if they do we should be able to step in an help these children.

WhatFor

Mon, Jan 22 2018, 8:06 pm

I should add that part of the reason I ask this is because growing up I had some very close friends in the foster care system. Some of them suffered trauma from horrible stuff that happened in the foster system. Some were placed with great families. So as an adult, I'm always aware that there's a risk.

If I knew that a child was being physically or zexually abused, I would definitely call child services, because then I think it would be worth the risk to get them involved. If all I saw was a dirty house or a child looking in the garbage outside their house (maybe they accidentally threw away a toy?), or they hardly ever talk to me.... I would definitely hesitate.