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Forum -> Parenting our children -> Toddlers
Feel so so so bad I hit my son
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Mommyg8




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jan 26 2018, 10:52 am
observer wrote:
Sorry, but to hit your child out of anger and frustration is bad. Really really bad.


Says???

But honestly, I never hit out of anger. Neither were me, my siblings, dh, his siblings, and anyone else I know hit out of anger. We are responsible parents (at least we try to be).
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amother
Yellow


 

Post Fri, Jan 26 2018, 10:54 am
Mommyg8 wrote:
Says???

But honestly, I never hit out of anger. Neither were me, my siblings, dh, his siblings, and anyone else I know hit out of anger. We are responsible parents (at least we try to be).

Says the Torah.
Says modern day psychology, with research backing.
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Mommyg8




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jan 26 2018, 11:00 am
amother wrote:
Says the Torah.
Says modern day psychology, with research backing.


Says the torah???? You've got to be kidding. You know that it actually says the opposite, right?
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amother
Yellow


 

Post Fri, Jan 26 2018, 11:04 am
Mommyg8 wrote:
Says the torah???? You've got to be kidding. You know that it actually says the opposite, right?

No, really. I can't ask right now, but I'm positive about this.
The concept of "chosech shivto" is specifically not in anger.

The Torah allows for hitting, but definitely not in anger. The Torah says terrible things about a person who hits their child in anger.
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keym




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jan 26 2018, 11:06 am
amother wrote:
Says the Torah.
Says modern day psychology, with research backing.


Where does it say its okay to hit out of anger or frustration?

The only sources ive ever seen is that it may be ok to hit. Only out of 1) 100% love not even the tiniest mashehu of anget 2) only to be mekayem mitzvas chinuch 3) only if you know it will work 4) only if the child wont hit back 5) only if the child knows youre doing it 100% out of love.
See R Wolbe sefer.
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Mommyg8




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jan 26 2018, 11:20 am
keym wrote:
Where does it say its okay to hit out of anger or frustration?

The only sources ive ever seen is that it may be ok to hit. Only out of 1) 100% love not even the tiniest mashehu of anget 2) only to be mekayem mitzvas chinuch 3) only if you know it will work 4) only if the child wont hit back 5) only if the child knows youre doing it 100% out of love.
See R Wolbe sefer.


Rabbi Wolbe is not the only Rav in the world, others may disagree with him. Also, he amended the s efer to say that it is ok to potch if your kids aren't listening to you, like not going to bed.

There are zero sources from the Torah that you are not allowed to hit, even in anger (Its never ok to be angry, but that's a separate discussion). It actually says in the Gemarah that if someone kills his child out of anger, he is not liable. Obviously, that is a very extreme position, and no one is advo ating it....

You are not allowed to hit a child over bar mitzvah, because of לפני איבר....and nowadays, chinuch experts say the age may be 8 (that he might hit back). BH, my kids never hit me back.... yet.
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Mommyg8




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jan 26 2018, 11:21 am
amother wrote:
No, really. I can't ask right now, but I'm positive about this.
The concept of "chosech shivto" is specifically not in anger.

The Torah allows for hitting, but definitely not in anger. The Torah says terrible things about a person who hits their child in anger.


Please source them. If anything, the Torah says terrible things about parents who aren't strict enough with their kids....
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amother
Ecru


 

Post Fri, Jan 26 2018, 11:22 am
amother wrote:
So why don’t you just pick him up in the first place?


As I said he really hates that. He'll start crying at the insult of being picked up and put into bed and it takes him literally over an hour to get over it. If I give him a little potch (not strong enough to actually hurt) he knows I'm serious and stops taking it as a joke. Why would I do what for him is a much harsher punishment? Every kid is different and for him this is what works best.
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amother
Dodgerblue


 

Post Fri, Jan 26 2018, 11:29 am
Stars wrote:
I'm sorry, I couldn't get past this line. Yes, yes you do need to listen to your kids. Not necessarily follow their instructions, but listen to *why* they are saying what they are saying.
Goodness. Maybe this is why they are acting out. They don't feel like anyone's listening to their needs.

Gosh, U are becoming very literal here. Or maybe because we speak in Yiddish I'm translating the words wrong.
I meant listen as in "folgen"
Not listen as in "oas herin"
Like when she says "Mommy hust mich nisht gefulgt" (in her strict voice)
Mommy darf nisht fulgen kinderlich, kinderlich darfen fulgen a mommeh"
Also my daughter told me today,
"Only a Mommy and Totty are allowed to touch an oven not kinderlich."
So my kids get this concept, ....only Totty and mommy can do....(includes a lot of things including potching)
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amother
Tangerine


 

Post Fri, Jan 26 2018, 11:30 am
Mommyg8 wrote:


There are zero sources from the Torah that you are not allowed to hit, even in anger (Its never ok to be angry, but that's a separate discussion). It actually says in the Gemarah that if someone kills his child out of anger, he is not liable. Obviously, that is a very extreme position, and no one is advo ating it....

.


Have to ask DH but sounds like you are misquoting something there..
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keym




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jan 26 2018, 11:38 am
There is a wonderful sefer/kuntres out there. Its called Siach Yeladim. My husband found it in BMG one day. We learn it together fri night.
Its halachos of veahavta lereacha kamocha- of which kids fall under, tochacha, and chinuch all combined. In other words Treating kids like people even while educating them.
I would strongly recommend everyone try to find it.
It gave me perspective in why are kids should listen to us and how we are really just shlichim to raise Hashem's children.
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observer




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jan 26 2018, 11:46 am
Mommyg8 wrote:
Says the torah???? You've got to be kidding. You know that it actually says the opposite, right?


Yes, it's brought down in seforim about how terrible it is to hit out of anger. Some really sobering lines about people who hit their children out of anger.

I will try to ask dh for the sources.
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amother
Dodgerblue


 

Post Fri, Jan 26 2018, 12:22 pm
Punishing a child in a way that feels very harsh for the child can be traumatizing for a child and is terrible. It's not davka the potch that's terrible. It's the abuse that's terrible. Hitting a child strongly, and then hitting because the child is crying from the hitting is abuse.
A small potch is not abuse. I can think of plenty consequences people use that my child would find much harsher than a small potch.
Ex: child talks in bed with siblings, child has to sleep in a different room because disturbing other kids, my child would cry bitterly from such a punishment. Time out...
I've seen parents lock kids in rooms or closets...my kid would be traumatized from that
You judge by feeling your child, and seeing how bad your child feels from the consequence you give. There are plenty ways of being abusive without ever hitting.
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Stars




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jan 26 2018, 1:37 pm
amother wrote:
Gosh, U are becoming very literal here. Or maybe because we speak in Yiddish I'm translating the words wrong.
I meant listen as in "folgen"
Not listen as in "oas herin"
Like when she says "Mommy hust mich nisht gefulgt" (in her strict voice)
Mommy darf nisht fulgen kinderlich, kinderlich darfen fulgen a mommeh"
Also my daughter told me today,
"Only a Mommy and Totty are allowed to touch an oven not kinderlich."
So my kids get this concept, ....only Totty and mommy can do....(includes a lot of things including potching)


I'm actually a Yiddish speaker too and I knew this was transliterated, but I stand by my first post.
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heidi




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Jan 27 2018, 9:10 am
amother wrote:
Punishing a child in a way that feels very harsh for the child can be traumatizing for a child and is terrible. It's not davka the potch that's terrible. It's the abuse that's terrible. Hitting a child strongly, and then hitting because the child is crying from the hitting is abuse.
A small potch is not abuse. I can think of plenty consequences people use that my child would find much harsher than a small potch.
Ex: child talks in bed with siblings, child has to sleep in a different room because disturbing other kids, my child would cry bitterly from such a punishment. Time out...
I've seen parents lock kids in rooms or closets...my kid would be traumatized from that
You judge by feeling your child, and seeing how bad your child feels from the consequence you give. There are plenty ways of being abusive without ever hitting.

I've tried to keep out of this bcz. I am assuming that everyone hitting their kids is doing so bcz. they don't know better. Please just know that potching your children, even a gentle potch, that locking your kids in rooms or closets is AGAINST THE LAW!!!!!!! Not to mention the terrible trauma you are putting your kids through. But if a kid mentions in school how Mommy potches anyone who misbehaves, you will definitely be investigated as child abusers.
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behappy2




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Jan 27 2018, 4:30 pm
1. Hitting out of anger is different than hitting as a form of discipline

2. Hitting out of anger is not ok. (That is why the op started this thread in the first place) hitting as a form of discipline is a decision that is up to each parent to make. (It is not my understanding that it is against the law. Check the law in your state)

3. We all do things in parenting we shouldn't. Dust off your skirt. Start again. Apologize to the child. Kiss and make up.

I didn't read all the posts. Hope this wasn't redundant.
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amother
Dodgerblue


 

Post Sat, Jan 27 2018, 5:07 pm
Stars wrote:
I'm actually a Yiddish speaker too and I knew this was transliterated, but I stand by my first post.

So what actually made you think I don't listen to the needs of my kids? I explained that when I said listen I didn't mean listen as in" hearing."
Maybe obey is a better word.
"Mommy does not need to obey the kids. Kids need to obey mommy"
Does that sound better to you?
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imasoftov




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jan 28 2018, 2:51 am
Mommyg8 wrote:
It's damaging if it's done wrong. It's totally fine if it's done right. I've heard this argument so many thousands of times, I certainly don't need to Google to find out what the flavor of the month is today. I understand that psychologists have data showing that corporal punishment is damaging. I am 100% sure that the way we do it is completely not damaging.

I am 110% sure that when I see a parent hitting a child I am legally entitled to rip both of the parents arms off and that if anyone disagrees with me that they're simply wrong.
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amother
Orchid


 

Post Sun, Jan 28 2018, 7:12 am
amother wrote:
Some parents over here sound like angels to me.

Yes, I've noticed that most parents here are angels or they act like it when responding. There have been numerous times when I read mine or someone else's thread and the responses are, what a terrible person you are (not in this case), but in reality it's nothing that terrible and something that rarely occurs. They make me feel like an incapable parent and wife, but in truth I know that to be untrue.
Jewishfoodie wrote:
OMG! Different generation parent here... Hello! Nice to meet you fine young ladies.
"get yourself therapy immediately ?" That is literally funnier than anything I heard all day!

When I see a mom facing her child and lifting her hand and the child cringes and recoils in terror. That is a sign of a mom abusing the smack. But if you're a mom and your child cringes or assumes a defensive mode, you're emotionally scarring him.

THAT is when you hire a psychologist.

As previously stated, smacks are only for dangerous and life threatening issues. Use. Don't abuse.

And do give your child the smack test. If he cringes in fear, he's helpless and terrified.

NO child should EVER be helpless and terrified.
(Well, unless they're getting vaccinations. Then, I cringe in fear too. And the mammogram thing... )

Agreed about the therapy part. I also agree about the second part, but for some odd reason my two youngest chidlren when they're doing something wrong and I might get up or go to them for I don't know, but no getting angry or lifting any hand or anything, they cringe. I ask them why in the world they're doing that since I rarely, literally, hit them. I can't remember the last time. And if I do, it's maybe once or twice a year and nothing abusive.
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observer




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jan 28 2018, 8:15 am
amother wrote:
Agreed about the therapy part. I also agree about the second part, but for some odd reason my two youngest chidlren when they're doing something wrong and I might get up or go to them for I don't know, but no getting angry or lifting any hand or anything, they cringe. I ask them why in the world they're doing that since I rarely, literally, hit them. I can't remember the last time. And if I do, it's maybe once or twice a year and nothing abusive.


Apparently it's had much more of a traumatic effect on them than you realize.
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