Seconds at a Simcha (s/o Sweets Table)

amother

Lavender

Fri, Feb 02 2018, 10:52 am

My husband has a larger appetite. Occasionally, at a simcha, waitstaff will notice that he's polished off his food, and tell him that there's an extra back in the kitchen if he wants it.

I've always assumed that the extra entree has already been accounted and paid for by the hosts, so its OK for DH to accept it. But if its an exorbitant extra cost, I'll suggest that he turn it down in the future.

Thoughts?

amother

Chocolate

Fri, Feb 02 2018, 11:07 am

It's gluttonous. I'm sure he's a wonderful guy and all but the food served at a simcha is appropriately portioned. Eating more is inappropriate. Not because of money. Like I said it's just overeating. But I doubt a bal simcha cares if he ate extra. But then again all the moms here seem to think those sweet mamas bringing a cookie home is a problem and I would be happy to share...my mom never took and I never take from a simcha but I would be happy if others took from mine. Then again ppl spend lots more on miniatures than old fashion rugelach so whom I to judge. I'm going off topic here...

amother

Royalblue

Fri, Feb 02 2018, 11:12 am

amother wrote:

That's not fair, nor is it gluttony. People come in different shapes and sizes with different appetites.

I've never heard of the concept of a caterer charging extra for a guest having a second portion. I've only heard that any food leftover after a simcha is property of the caterer. However - there are lots of business models.

amother

Royalblue

Fri, Feb 02 2018, 11:28 am

octopus wrote:

What do you mean you have never heard of a caterer charging if a person took seconds? Have you made simchas before? The baal hasimcha is not required to cater to unique appetites. The baal hasimcha is providing dinner for the average person. What is this talk about fair and unfair? That is not normal talk! Take a step back and think, please.

Excuse me? Where I live for a wedding or bar mitzvah the host makes a contract with the caterer for x number of guests... finalizes the number a week before the simcha. That locks in the price for food. Done. If 10 don't show - too bad.

The caterer, if he knows what a good reputation is, will make a few extra portions.

animeme

Fri, Feb 02 2018, 11:31 am

I think there is a difference between asking for seconds and being offered and accepting. Nobody would ask for more, but if the wait staff offers, to me it is the same as if the host offers.

I don't understand the leftover thing. You pay for the food before it is brought, and you keep the leftovers, unless you have a specific arrangement with the caterers for them to not charge you for them because they take them. Either way, you can instruct the wait staff to not give seconds, I guess. I have only seen seconds offered to picky children who finally fine something to eat and polish it off or to adults who likewise can only eat one thing from their plate.

amother

Lavender

Fri, Feb 02 2018, 11:40 am

amother wrote:

Exactly.

That's the way it was done at our wedding. At the b'nai mitzvot I've made. At the brisim I've made. You order food for X people. If fewer than X show up, there are leftovers, which you're entitled to. If more people show up, you're embarrassed by the lack of food. I recall discussing with the caterer how the calculations are made as to how much of which foods are made available, when there is a selection.

It doesn't make sense any other way. You say 150 people. Only 120 eat. The caterer is still going to charge you for 150, because he can't reuse the food, and he's not going to lose money. Conversely, he's not showing up with food for 200 in case extra people show up; too much risk of loss for him.

I've never heard of anything else, which is why I asked.

I wasn't asking to have my husband attacked as gluttonous -- people do have different metabolisms and different calorie needs, you know; they also may or may not eat at the cocktail hour, and may skip lunch. My husband who plays basketball 3 times a week, and lifts another 3 times a week, needs more calories than a couch potato. Nor was I asking to be insulted and told that I'm not "normal" because my husband accepts an offer of seconds.

amother

Royalblue

Fri, Feb 02 2018, 11:41 am

animeme wrote:

the leftover thing.. you pay for a service (which includes severing a specified menu), you don't pay for the food. Again - this is the model I've seen. (and desserts which are often provided for from a third-party after sometimes exempt from this)

watergirl

Fri, Feb 02 2018, 11:44 am

I think that with all the food that is served at typical frum weddings, there should be enough to fill up and one serving of dinner should be enough. Having said that, each person and each simcha is different. I always eat before I go because I never know what to expect. If someone has a larger appitite, I would suggest eating before as well.
Waiters may have good intentions but they arent the ones paying the bill.

Re: final number count for caterer - A close relative made a wedding in a city with almost no frum jews and this was the first frum wedding in many years. The hotel charged them for an exorbitant number of meals. They dug deeper and learned that the count all tje unused napkins and that how they know how many people ate. Dumb for many reasons! The kallahs friends made a jump roap with the unused napkins! So they had a huge bill.

There is no one rule with a caterer.

watergirl

Fri, Feb 02 2018, 11:47 am

amother wrote:

I would suggest that your husband makes sure to eat lunch the days that he has a simcha and to eat the cocktail food if offered. This is the food that was for sure counted in their count and you dont have to worry about the host being charged another $80 for a second piece of chicken and green beans.

southernbubby

Fri, Feb 02 2018, 12:01 pm

I think that it is up to the baal simcha to clarify what they will be charged for such as napkins used to skip rope or second helpings and if it is something that they don't want to provide, they have to make it clear to the waitstaff that they are not providing something that comes with an extra charge, if they don't want to incur that charge.

I agree that it isn't up to the baal simcha to be concerned about individual preferences and appetites and in my experience it cost a lot more to diversify a menu in order to give choices and no all baal smachot are in a position to offer cater to the personal preferences of the guest.

The guest who is offered seconds by the waitstaff can take it in good conscience because it indicates that the baal simcha is providing this.

To those who are making smachot, clarify these matters with the caterer before signing on the dotted line. If seconds cost more, have the waitstaff tell those who ask for seconds that all that is left for seconds is the side dishes and not the chicken or fish. I have seen the waitstaff tell that to those who ask for seconds.

clowny

Fri, Feb 02 2018, 12:26 pm

amother wrote:

This.
And any leftover food belongs to Baal simcha since bal simcha paid for it. Not to caterer.
And as long as there are still portions available in the kitchen (once everyone was served already) it is not considered stealing to eat another portion.

octopus

Fri, Feb 02 2018, 12:30 pm

amother wrote:

Excuse you! Do you think that every single caterer has the same way to calculate charges?!

octopus

Fri, Feb 02 2018, 12:38 pm

amother wrote:

I don't think your husband is gluttonous if he is offered extra food by wait staff, but he should not request another portion if it is not offered. I would not accept,even if it were offered, if I were him, just in case the wait staff has no idea what they are talking about and the hosts get charged extra. But, really, be honest with yourself. No one is responsible to serve doubles for your husband's quick metabolism. I guess you are worried we are all envisioning a 400lb overweight man.

octopus

Fri, Feb 02 2018, 12:39 pm

I do know of people who took extra plates and the baal hasimcha was charged for it because it went over the original count. Yes, the baal hasimcha is charged for 150 people. Yes, a smart caterer makes extras but if more people show up to simcha than the regular headcount, they are charged for it. Whether they count by chairs or plates depends on caterer.

WhatFor

Fri, Feb 02 2018, 12:56 pm

I appreciate that you're reaching out because you want to make sure that DH is doing the right thing, and not inadvertently costing the baal simcha too much.

I'd be surprised if the waitstaff knew anything about the payment technicalities. That level of detail is generally above a waiter's pay grade (although I suppose this can vary by catering company). So even if your DH responded with, "would the host be charged more if I took doubles?" The waiter might be wrong if they said, "no".

Now that you know that a lot of catering business models make baalei simcha pay per plate, DH can take that into account. How does he feel about the possibility that the host may have to pay double for him what they're paying for everyone else?

I agree with those saying that if he doesn't think he'll be full, he should eat a bit more during the smorgasbord/buffet in the beginning, and consider bringing snacks/ eating beforehand if that won't be enough.

Maybe this is a separate discussion,, but Ialso agree that people of different sizes eat different amounts, and it's great that your DH plays basketball a few times a week, and lifts, but that's probably not bumping up his daily required intake by too much. (I assume he's not rising to the Michael Phelps level.) Meaning, I would suspect that he can get his daily required intake eating only one portion at each part of the meal.

You are probably comparing DH to many unhealthy people, who you see eating the same amount and not doing any workout whatsoever. That doesn't mean he should eat more. It means they need to work out more. (And I bet your DH is in better shape than they are.)

To your point about your DH not eating lunch sometimes, I get that you wrote that to point out that he's not a glutton. But a baal simcha is typically hosting people for dinner, not to make up also for lunch they may have skipped (or, for some people on the other thread, to supplement family dinners for the rest of the week.)