What is class? (And what is old money?)

amother

Fuchsia

Tue, Feb 06 2018, 7:41 am

People with "old money" are hopefully "trained" how to use that money appropriately, how to "treat" household help and are taught that they don't don't need to be flashy. Really old money vs new money can go either way. Sometimes "new money" remember what it was like before they were rich and stay down to earth but sometimes they are so enamored with their money and don't know what to do with it that they start spending out of control etc...

amother

Cerulean

Tue, Feb 06 2018, 8:02 am

I once went to a wedding (not frum)
A bridesmaid about 15, came down the isle.
She was wearing a sleeveless dress, and her hair was long, almost to her waist.
Even though the girl was not dressed tzniut, something about her radiated tzniut.
She was aidel and refine- that's class

BTW- she also came from old money

Mommyg8

Tue, Feb 06 2018, 8:03 am

amother wrote:

that’s not what makes them classy - what makes them classy is their attitude towards money, and the way they present themselves. The kardashians for example, are the polar opposite. And just because they worked for their money, doesn’t make them classy. This isn’t a discussion of which type of money is better or preferable.

In the non-jewish world, "old money" is generally preferable to new money. Probably because the non-working rich have the time and energy to follow countless petty etiquette rules. Such as which type of glass to use with which type of wine. (Sorry, Fox!)

Someone like Warren Buffet is too busy working, so that it doesn't bother him too much how he eats his McDonald hamburger or how he drinks his cans of Coke.

But then again, in the non-jewish world, non-jews are preferred to Jews, so none of us here have to worry about this...

I don't know if this is still true, but Europeans used to be considered much classier than Americans. I know from my own life, that my European grandparents were much, much "classier ", (not to be confused with better), than my American born grandparents. Manners and formality were very important to my European grandparents.

I have two problems with living the more formal, etiquette-rich lifestyle -

1. There are a lot of rules to remember. And a lot more potential for shaming those who don't follow those rules precisely.

2. As Fox has alluded to, living a classier lifestyle sometimes allows a large amount of serious dysfunction to be shoved under the rug. A certain amount of reticence about the skeletons in one's closet is a good thing, true. But taken to the extreme, a family with massive skeletons that are shoved under the rug or hidden in a closet; or a family who are abusive and mean in their own homes yet present a picture perfect snapshot to society.... well, I guess hiding abuse, addiction and affairs have a purpose. I guess. But in today's world, I haven't seen this kind of behavior viewed positively.

Skippy!!

Tue, Feb 06 2018, 8:29 am

Where is all this information about old money coming from, are you perhaps taking it from movies?
Warren Buffet, eating McDonalds is just a PR stunt. He wants you to think he's just like the common man.

Mommyg8

Tue, Feb 06 2018, 8:32 am

Skippy!! wrote:

Not the movies. Real life. Warren Buffett is not socially savvy enough to do PR stunts. This is who he is. I did a college report on him, and read numerous biographies. But this is completely off the topic.

amother

Pewter

Tue, Feb 06 2018, 8:32 am

Fox wrote:

No, I'm simply saying that I don't equate class with good moral character. You can be a reprehensible person in private but behave with class in public.

However, I do believe class is often associated with being somewhat private about things that would make other people uncomfortable. If my friend is having an affair, I don't want to be put in the position of being her confindante. If she's cheating on her taxes, I don't want to be an accessory after the fact. If she's relying on drugs to get through the day, she'd better be prepared to share. Whoops! I didn't mean that!

I think my personal Hall of Fame award goes to a women I encountered on 13th Avenue in Brooklyn years ago. It seems her mother had colitis, and she was giving an update to a good friend. Problem was, the good friend was almost 50 feet away. That didn't stop this lady, though. She just bellowed out all the pertinent info for everyone between 45th and 46th Streets. I'm not exaggerating when I tell you that the entire block was riveted by the tale.

Forcing other people to find out things they'd rather not know about you (or your mother) is the antithesis of class. Classy people keep their aveiros and their digestive systems to themselves.

Unfortunately there are people who live for others while in private they are nasty. They flaunt their wealth and have huge egos to match. They thumb their noses at others and consider themselves gods gift to mankind. Such as my neighbor who on the street supposedly has a name for being BETTER but we are privy to the ugliness and terror one person can wreak. I mentioned in another thread how this particular person put her carriage in the hall-blocking and creating a safety hazard-and uses the shared hallway to store used garbage bags, bike scooter travel carriage dirty stinky diapers etc.....with smells to the sky. She has threatened me and my husband and blocked my child from passing her on the steps. She lets her kids bang on walls with trucks and blocks at 5:45 am and wakes the entire building up. At night there’s crazy noise too with her slamming doors and just acting angry all the time!! She has gotten aggressive with me and violently aggressive with our landlady and the list goes on and on. There’s nothing to do besides wait for salvation. My landlord doesn’t have koach to fight in court saying it takes years-imagine the damnation from the public for going to court!!. Unfortunately She refuses to leave tho. Bais din is full of bribery especially from this influential rich family. this woman will Have PLENTY to answer for up there in shamayim for the horrible things she did and said(or rather hollered and shrieked) to me personally to spite me for NO REASON over the past few years.
Yes,on the street, on the outside this woman is the ULTIMATE CLASSY WOMAN. yet it’s a persona-a mask- that slips off each time her ego gets hurt,oftentimes imagined or caused by people responding negatively to her selfish actions.
While I am the real classy person who held back from responding in kind to her numerous attempts to harass and hurt me. Every time she told us you are gonna see whose boss or u don’t know who ur messing with or when she lambasted me to my husband,trying to get his sympathy for my “abuse” towards her(which is nonsense btw)or when she got her mom to call and verbally abuse and threaten me ....I never did anything back to her. Unfortunately it seems nice people suffer in this crazy world where everything is hidden from us.
My point is-it’s how people act bein Adam lechveiro in private, Not in public that makes them classy

flowerpower

Tue, Feb 06 2018, 8:36 am

Classy is someone that is refined. They have good manners, good middos, dresses neat when going out( doesn't mean expensive), speaks on a medium to low tone and not full of shtissum...

Mommyg8

Tue, Feb 06 2018, 9:02 am

Writergirl wrote:

That'd not what she's saYing at all.

I think that IS what she said? Please clarify what you mean.

amother

Blonde

Tue, Feb 06 2018, 9:23 am

Skippy!! wrote:

At least in my case, it's coming from familiarity with people in life. I know my father's side of the family quite well and know many of the families they associate with. While of course movie or media portrayals are never 100% true, there's a good amount of truth in the general perception. Although you can't fully understand unless you experience it.

dancingqueen

Tue, Feb 06 2018, 11:56 am

I explained a little on the other thread the difference between old money and the nouveau riche.

Also there is a big difference between having class - proper etiquette, fine manners etc, and being classy which is more about being well behaved with moral standards.